Active Users:1139 Time:23/11/2024 04:03:04 AM
Also, do you think a good book would have generated this level of discussion? Of course not. Tom Send a noteboard - 27/01/2010 05:21:45 PM
A bad book (and Monte Cristo is certainly "bad" in terms of style, depth of writing, character development and a whole host of other criteria) allows us to have a much more interesting debate. Larry and I are back to discussing genre, the contrast between light fiction and literature and the relative worth of critical literary theory. You and I are arguing over whether or not a relativist approach to literature is valid. Isn't that, ultimately, the POINT of this site? To talk about books and literature? Aren't we doing exactly what we're here to do???
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
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The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas - Book Club now open! - 25/01/2010 10:54:37 PM 2444 Views
Le plot. - 25/01/2010 10:55:26 PM 1208 Views
Plot: demarcation, plan, complot... - 26/01/2010 11:48:19 PM 1339 Views
Les characters. - 25/01/2010 10:56:23 PM 1297 Views
The good, the bad and the ugly. - 26/01/2010 10:54:38 AM 1316 Views
Hmm. - 27/01/2010 03:58:31 PM 1235 Views
Re: Hmm. - 27/01/2010 04:59:12 PM 1303 Views
Re: Hmm. - 28/01/2010 01:40:34 PM 1247 Views
Re: Hmm. - 01/02/2010 12:49:06 PM 1455 Views
Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 25/01/2010 10:57:37 PM 1282 Views
Or rather, does this book share any traits in common with pornography? - 25/01/2010 11:14:01 PM 1408 Views
I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. - 26/01/2010 03:43:04 AM 1316 Views
Re: I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. - 26/01/2010 11:12:19 AM 1365 Views
In that case, the "release" is quite unsatisfying. - 27/01/2010 01:42:28 PM 1474 Views
Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 02:06:58 PM 1361 Views
Oh, and your point on revenge - that's just reading too much into the text. - 27/01/2010 02:16:05 PM 1194 Views
There is no such thing - 27/01/2010 02:18:46 PM 1248 Views
I fundamentally disagree with your post-modern take on the novel. - 27/01/2010 02:25:25 PM 1300 Views
It isn't a postmodern take on it - 27/01/2010 02:41:32 PM 1268 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 03:40:36 PM 1242 Views
Maybe it's of the same importance as the Lost Symbol. - 27/01/2010 03:44:55 PM 1307 Views
If I ddin't know better, I might think you a trifle petulant - 27/01/2010 04:19:57 PM 1366 Views
I'm never petulant - 27/01/2010 04:55:56 PM 1239 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 04:47:37 PM 1337 Views
I think one important question to ask is... - 26/01/2010 12:00:17 AM 1351 Views
I have read the abridged version a couple of times. I am reading the unabridged version this time. - 26/01/2010 03:25:50 AM 1292 Views
the potentially removable part... - 26/01/2010 11:24:16 AM 1356 Views
I have read both - 27/01/2010 01:37:00 AM 1372 Views
The abridged versus the unabridged - 28/01/2010 06:32:22 AM 1287 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 27/01/2010 01:16:47 AM 1412 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 30/01/2010 09:12:22 AM 1299 Views
Re: I got here too late, so I offer Umberto Eco's thoughts on the matter: - 22/02/2010 06:59:13 PM 1474 Views
I'm watching right back, Big Brother. *NM* - 25/01/2010 11:44:30 PM 660 Views
*NM* - 25/01/2010 11:45:27 PM 645 Views
The book was very childish. - 26/01/2010 03:05:01 AM 1411 Views
Granted, The Master and Margarita is also very much a fantasy book. *NM* - 26/01/2010 03:07:45 AM 679 Views
No, it really isn't. - 26/01/2010 03:10:08 AM 1360 Views
You know, this is a problem. - 26/01/2010 03:43:14 AM 1331 Views
There's really nothing I can say to this that Greg didn't just say above. - 26/01/2010 06:32:02 AM 1399 Views
People tend to forget one thing about Tolkien - 26/01/2010 01:36:06 PM 1327 Views
Re: No, it really isn't. - 26/01/2010 10:57:19 AM 1263 Views
I'll admit the only Lem I've read is Solaris... - 26/01/2010 01:52:02 PM 1349 Views
Read His Master's Voice - 26/01/2010 04:52:31 PM 1262 Views
You make some rather odd claims here, Tom - 27/01/2010 12:43:41 AM 1348 Views
You place undue importance on academic degrees. - 27/01/2010 01:19:40 AM 1338 Views
You misread totally what I said, I see... - 27/01/2010 01:52:59 AM 1265 Views
My claims are far from odd. In fact, they're quite common. - 27/01/2010 01:57:41 AM 1319 Views
In some circles; in others, they're rather antiquated nowadays - 27/01/2010 02:21:03 AM 1253 Views
If you were trying to write literature, wouldn't the label sting for you? - 27/01/2010 01:25:14 PM 1310 Views
I think it's easier to think of stories fitting into genre(s) than to think the same of authors - 27/01/2010 02:40:29 PM 1374 Views
Allow me to clarify: I'm talking about authors' reactions to their books being so labelled. - 27/01/2010 03:08:47 PM 1418 Views
But yet their reactions vary widely - 27/01/2010 11:33:25 PM 1294 Views
My fundamental premise is that genre has the most utility when applied to derivative fiction. - 28/01/2010 09:39:17 PM 1283 Views
And yet that term is mostly used as a non-loaded term that doesn't attempt to ascribe quality levels - 29/01/2010 02:49:20 AM 1194 Views
I like my definition of science fiction better than the one you quoted. - 29/01/2010 05:16:36 AM 1253 Views
I think estrangement is a key element, though - 30/01/2010 11:00:19 PM 1225 Views
I don't think estrangement is a necessary element. - 30/01/2010 11:47:07 PM 1430 Views
I mean it as a literary effect, that of creating a distance between text and reader - 31/01/2010 12:03:34 AM 1231 Views
Even if that's the meaning, I still disagree. - 03/02/2010 12:49:58 AM 1228 Views
Depends on how you view SF, I suppose - 03/02/2010 04:20:56 AM 1105 Views
I thought that was what we were mulling over - 03/02/2010 04:38:35 AM 1225 Views
True - 03/02/2010 05:11:19 AM 1161 Views
Nice tie-in! - 03/02/2010 01:55:33 PM 1213 Views
- 05/02/2010 06:06:23 AM 1298 Views
The approve of this message. - 26/01/2010 03:34:49 AM 1332 Views
I'm not through it quite yet, but I do have a question - 26/01/2010 12:24:14 PM 1238 Views
Wait...you VOTED for this book? - 26/01/2010 01:41:00 PM 1308 Views
I honestly can't remember. - 26/01/2010 01:55:39 PM 1264 Views
Doctor Zhivago is one of the best novels ever written. - 26/01/2010 02:12:35 PM 1275 Views
Right, so now we all know that if we'd just listen to me more often, the world would be better. - 26/01/2010 02:20:56 PM 1280 Views
The problem was that the suggestions were generally not that good. - 26/01/2010 02:32:50 PM 1328 Views
Possession is not "purely a romance novel". - 26/01/2010 02:57:17 PM 1446 Views
Which basically proves my entire point. - 26/01/2010 03:00:20 PM 1320 Views
Which is purely a romance novel? - 26/01/2010 02:59:38 PM 1324 Views
Fair enough, it might be a bit tricky to discuss. *NM* - 26/01/2010 03:04:58 PM 656 Views
In your opinion - 26/01/2010 03:07:12 PM 1327 Views
Exactly why I avoid suggesting modern books - 26/01/2010 03:10:09 PM 1309 Views
You really are ignornant of what A.S. Byatt writes, aren't you? - 27/01/2010 12:51:00 AM 1295 Views
Oh, I fucking hate epistolary novels. Thank you for warning me. - 27/01/2010 02:00:34 AM 1200 Views
Ha! - 27/01/2010 02:22:00 AM 1252 Views
Perhaps I would like it. I still hate epistolary novels. - 27/01/2010 01:26:43 PM 1288 Views
Indeed. *NM* - 26/01/2010 02:01:22 PM 598 Views
It's funny because I think it's a question of taste level. - 26/01/2010 02:32:08 PM 1386 Views
Curious George is a tale of many layers, as told by Werner Herzog - 26/01/2010 02:34:27 PM 1407 Views
I don't care if this validates your opinion of me. - 29/01/2010 11:06:18 PM 1189 Views
On what basis? - 26/01/2010 02:51:40 PM 1341 Views
It's a children's book. Get over it. Democracy failed. - 26/01/2010 02:55:03 PM 1344 Views
Usually does, when those who know better keep silent. - 26/01/2010 02:57:54 PM 1248 Views
I didn't keep silent, though. - 26/01/2010 04:46:48 PM 1327 Views
You're ignoring what we've been discussing. - 27/01/2010 11:11:44 AM 1295 Views
Regarding comfort zones - 26/01/2010 05:08:50 PM 1364 Views
Camilla, let's be honest here... - 26/01/2010 05:40:08 PM 1352 Views
Re: Camilla, let's be honest here... - 26/01/2010 09:10:47 PM 1347 Views
If that's your goal, Camilla, you failed. - 27/01/2010 01:35:52 PM 1410 Views
Possibly - 27/01/2010 01:38:39 PM 1276 Views
I have not been ranting and raving. I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. - 27/01/2010 01:45:05 PM 1277 Views
Re: I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. - 27/01/2010 01:53:28 PM 1266 Views
I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. - 27/01/2010 02:26:12 PM 1399 Views
Don't you get it? We bring this place down. - 27/01/2010 02:42:32 PM 1250 Views
Re: I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. - 27/01/2010 02:43:11 PM 1263 Views
While that was not the intent, that is an added bonus. - 27/01/2010 02:48:47 PM 1258 Views
why is it a bonus? - 27/01/2010 02:52:58 PM 1228 Views
I said see above. You should have before the thought police, Rebekah, started to delete. - 27/01/2010 02:59:07 PM 1511 Views
I did - 27/01/2010 04:40:25 PM 1295 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones - 27/01/2010 11:57:03 AM 1323 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones - 27/01/2010 11:59:31 AM 1275 Views
Halfway - 27/01/2010 12:07:14 PM 1271 Views
Re: Halfway - 27/01/2010 12:09:02 PM 1287 Views
Re: The book was very childish. - 30/01/2010 09:56:29 PM 1295 Views
I read it in French - 30/01/2010 10:54:34 PM 1177 Views
So. I really liked it. - 26/01/2010 08:57:02 AM 1392 Views
Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. - 26/01/2010 11:04:23 PM 1268 Views
Re: Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. - 26/01/2010 11:49:03 PM 1307 Views
We were talking about this last night. - 27/01/2010 11:14:21 AM 1391 Views
Re: We were talking about this last night. - 27/01/2010 11:37:04 AM 1391 Views
If you do that, I'm posting on the deeper meaning of Dan Brown. - 27/01/2010 01:46:35 PM 1366 Views
Feel free to. - 27/01/2010 01:51:23 PM 1337 Views
Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. - 27/01/2010 02:28:56 PM 1300 Views
Re: Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. - 27/01/2010 02:45:41 PM 1323 Views
I'm not setting up a straw man. I'm challenging your touchy-feely approach. - 27/01/2010 03:15:00 PM 1206 Views
My touchy-feely approach? - 27/01/2010 05:09:04 PM 1226 Views
Yes...using passing references in the text to justify a deeper analysis. - 27/01/2010 05:16:10 PM 1279 Views
Doesn't touchy-feely mean that it is steeped in or based on emotion? - 27/01/2010 06:40:31 PM 1248 Views
I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. - 27/01/2010 07:01:08 PM 1254 Views
You summed up my reasons for using "touchy-feely" quite well. - 27/01/2010 07:27:45 PM 1241 Views
Glad to hear it. - 27/01/2010 07:39:20 PM 1130 Views
Re: I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. - 27/01/2010 08:29:32 PM 1309 Views
See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. - 27/01/2010 08:57:18 PM 1352 Views
Re: See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. - 27/01/2010 09:09:47 PM 1269 Views
Well, so what will it be? - 27/01/2010 09:14:53 PM 1225 Views
Er. Whose position are you arguing - mine or yours? - 27/01/2010 10:33:01 PM 1152 Views
Do it. I'd read that. - 27/01/2010 01:55:23 PM 1390 Views
Re: Do it. I'd read that. - 27/01/2010 02:10:04 PM 1289 Views
Right then. - 27/01/2010 02:15:04 PM 1259 Views
All righty, that's enough of that. For Tom, Greg, and... no, pretty much just you two. - 27/01/2010 04:33:00 PM 1321 Views
And ANOTHER THING - 27/01/2010 05:05:17 PM 1188 Views
Not everyone has finished reading it yet *NM* - 27/01/2010 05:12:10 PM 704 Views
Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. - 27/01/2010 05:17:51 PM 1338 Views
Re: Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. - 27/01/2010 06:41:11 PM 1297 Views
We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. - 27/01/2010 07:30:49 PM 1219 Views
In the interest of discussing Dumas' intentions... - 27/01/2010 08:03:24 PM 1391 Views
It was mildly interesting. - 27/01/2010 09:04:03 PM 1344 Views
I think you're misreading that... - 27/01/2010 10:18:11 PM 1360 Views
Re: We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. - 27/01/2010 08:30:19 PM 1361 Views
The text doesn't warrant "close attention" any more than Dan Brown's works do. - 27/01/2010 09:10:45 PM 1227 Views
fine. *NM* - 27/01/2010 09:12:44 PM 641 Views
Also, do you think a good book would have generated this level of discussion? Of course not. - 27/01/2010 05:21:45 PM 1265 Views
What discussion? - 27/01/2010 06:42:32 PM 1293 Views
I said that we couldn't discuss the book on its own terms. - 27/01/2010 07:35:32 PM 1377 Views
Which I still think we can. - 27/01/2010 08:35:35 PM 1257 Views
Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. - 27/01/2010 09:06:59 PM 1366 Views
Re: Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. - 27/01/2010 09:12:22 PM 1310 Views
You have yet to show any utility for breaking things down. - 27/01/2010 09:19:29 PM 1376 Views
I haven't tried to show any "utility" for it. - 01/02/2010 01:06:35 PM 1221 Views
I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. - 27/01/2010 10:40:36 PM 1278 Views
Re: I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. - 01/02/2010 12:56:03 PM 1198 Views
Deary me. - 27/01/2010 05:19:58 PM 1468 Views
By "respect" do you mean that you want me to drop my debates? - 27/01/2010 05:24:03 PM 1222 Views
Not at all. - 27/01/2010 05:35:34 PM 1404 Views
Okay, I'm cool with that. - 27/01/2010 05:44:54 PM 1373 Views
Thank you. - 27/01/2010 05:48:05 PM 1791 Views
Please ban me, then. - 27/01/2010 06:44:55 PM 1238 Views
Nods - 18/02/2010 05:06:44 PM 1719 Views
Oh man, I love this thread. *NM* - 28/01/2010 01:17:58 AM 628 Views
On the nature of the "Book Club" - 28/01/2010 09:23:23 PM 1138 Views
Any chance of seeing some shorter suggestions? - 28/01/2010 10:20:59 PM 1361 Views
Yes, shorter would be good. - 28/01/2010 10:23:28 PM 1213 Views
Oh i'm not complaining - 28/01/2010 10:33:48 PM 1216 Views
Sure sounded like it. - 28/01/2010 10:38:27 PM 1277 Views
No for reals, shorter is good. - 29/01/2010 01:08:26 AM 1252 Views
Absolutely. - 29/01/2010 03:33:15 AM 1189 Views
Agreed - 29/01/2010 11:26:34 AM 1281 Views
Well, you should have known better! - 29/01/2010 01:29:40 AM 1254 Views
I do. - 29/01/2010 08:31:30 PM 1239 Views
Thought you did - 29/01/2010 08:38:39 PM 1222 Views
- 29/01/2010 08:51:42 PM 1260 Views
All I can say is The Master and Margarita better be one by March. WE WAS ROBBED. *NM* - 29/01/2010 02:31:48 AM 609 Views
That is the other one that I am considering. *NM* - 29/01/2010 03:32:02 AM 625 Views
I'll re-read Zhivago or Master if either is chosen - 29/01/2010 05:26:02 AM 1210 Views
Talk to me Ghavrel. - 30/01/2010 12:09:24 AM 1160 Views
Well, I haven't finished it yet. - 30/01/2010 02:21:08 AM 1218 Views
Re: On the nature of the "Book Club" - 29/01/2010 12:33:03 PM 1213 Views
I didn't read it for the Book Club - 29/01/2010 12:40:22 AM 1225 Views
Well I'm late to the party - 29/01/2010 06:21:18 AM 1192 Views
No, you're early - 01/02/2010 01:26:10 PM 1096 Views
I still have yet to see that discussion, Camilla. *NM* - 03/02/2010 12:46:24 AM 668 Views
A few comments - 04/02/2010 06:39:18 AM 1540 Views
If I kept you from participating, that's your fault. - 04/02/2010 01:01:46 PM 1179 Views
An interesting quote from the book - does it jibe with your experience? - 29/01/2010 11:23:54 PM 1268 Views
Sure. - 01/02/2010 03:23:59 PM 1231 Views

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