There's a subject line I'll regret later. But yeah, tomorrow, 'cos I still haven't slept since I left work. Looks like I have a crapton of reading to do in this thread, too. Euripides to Phillip Jose Farmer, huh? Odd that I was also thinking about threads soliciting thoughts on Riverworld and Incarnations and someone else mentions them together. Anyway.

Yes, but Lucas turned into a hack well before Episode I. It was a throw away line attempting relevancy for him (which shows how far gone he is if that's the most awareness he had of how he's reduced himself to a commercial vehicle for 10 year olds, and the most he was willing to do in a token effort to save himself.) It's been a running dialogue for Rand and the others from the moment Semi was captured. And one very similar to the conflicts the Wonder Girls had internally and otherwise over Moggy. Of course, if they summarily execute Moggy when they have her Rahvin kills Rand at the end of TEotW and the series has a very different climax. Or maybe if Mordeth doesn't decide that's OK the Ten Nations aren't consumed by their victory over the Shadow. Manetheren doesn't die alone, betrayed. How different is Randland then?

No, Jordans treatment is a little less superficial than Lucas' if only because it's more involved. Along with, let's stop calling them tropes and call them what Jordan surely saw them as, archetypes, this is another Great Theme of the series, and it's not as simple as "Mordeth was wrong therefore Chamberlain was right." Real life is never that convenient, and neither is great fiction.

In that particular volume that probably is the deepest moment, though I agree with your assessment of the presentation, and like it or not points are awarded (or deducted) for style. And it is one of the Great Themes, but "Love conquers all" has become trite enough you have to say it just right to get people to listen.

In presentation, perhaps, though I must disappoint you there because I haven't read any of Sandersons other work. Believe it or not, I don't read much fantasy anymore because I got tired of how much crap I had to climb through to get to ponies that were usually too small if present at all. It's not that they aren't there though, it's that with the way Tolkien sparked and seized the imagination of a generation there were hordes who either thought That doesn't look so hard, I could make millions like that or I must pay tribute to what the Master showed me, by shamelessly plagiarizing and butchering his work without even realizing it. And it's gotten a lot like the music industry: The only way to know what's worth your time is to dive in and see, but the industry picks are safe moneymakers and thus pedestrian recycling, yet you can't just expect every "unknown" author to be better because 90% of them can't even write pedestrian recycling "well." I read fast, but they churn 'em out faster and I just don't have the time or patience, plus reading a lot of it is like watching someone slowly beat Sam to death with Bill the Pony.

But every so often there's an exception that makes it worthwhile, and for more than just good entertainment. Once in a great while there's an author with something more profound to offer than "Elves are neat-o!" Occasionally there's an author who makes me say, "I agree, and not just for John Q. Dragonslayer but for everyone." Hell, even I concede Anthony's a hack, but the reason I like his Incarnations series best (except for the last one when it seemed like he was going through the motions and trying too hard just to complete a contract) and consider it his most mature is that it made me think, and at a critical point in my life when a newly teenage boy had decided what the preachers had been telling him didn't really jibe with reality. Think back to the first souls claimed by the new Thanatos; are those events thrown out just for entertainment or an attempt to seem deep? Not a lot of answers, but a lot of questions, and no little frustration, which may not be entertaining, but is a lot more relevant, and not just while the latest fairy-fad endures.

Tomorrow, my word on it.