Books Messageboard: That's it8} by Ouranid

Rebekah - 01/12/2009 09:22:56 PM 1134 Views

Re:

Tom - 01/12/2009 09:28:04 PM 1112 Views

you shouldn't feel the need to defend a non SF/F suggestion, just don't imlad - 03/12/2009 03:34:28 PM 1130 Views

Wow...we were just Santified *NM* Tom - 03/12/2009 09:16:21 PM 560 Views

Well, let me offer a diverging view on the topic of speculative fiction. jh - 01/12/2009 09:46:35 PM 1036 Views

I would counter that the stripping away removes a level of reality. Tom - 01/12/2009 10:05:28 PM 1123 Views

That's a Slippery Slope Because You Could Argue On the Same Basis That All Fiction Does That. The Name With No Man - 01/12/2009 11:34:34 PM 1176 Views

I don't see the slippery slope, but rather, a confirmation of my original point. Tom - 02/12/2009 01:41:24 AM 1122 Views

perhaps some university will do a study imlad - 03/12/2009 03:55:54 PM 1079 Views

I'd like to see it Tom - 03/12/2009 09:15:12 PM 1130 Views

I'll get to it once I finish my thesis Camilla - 03/12/2009 09:56:29 PM 1068 Views

If it looks like crap and smells like crap...

Tom - 03/12/2009 10:04:15 PM 1096 Views

I Think I'll Post a Thread on This. The Name With No Man - 03/12/2009 06:47:05 PM 1051 Views

I'd like to see it. Tom - 03/12/2009 09:23:07 PM 1091 Views

Regarding depth in Jordan Camilla - 03/12/2009 09:31:19 PM 1099 Views

I was thinking about that too Tom - 03/12/2009 10:05:40 PM 1077 Views

Re: I was thinking about that too Camilla - 03/12/2009 10:09:26 PM 1168 Views

Destroying the Wheel is meaningless. Tom - 03/12/2009 10:18:08 PM 1066 Views

Re: Destroying the Wheel is meaningless. Camilla - 03/12/2009 10:30:15 PM 1091 Views

It would. Destroying the Wheel would likely make him a Buddhist. Tom - 03/12/2009 10:51:17 PM 1075 Views

I Totally Missed That.

Joel - 04/12/2009 10:45:56 PM 1152 Views

Re: I Totally Missed That.

Camilla - 04/12/2009 10:47:59 PM 1133 Views

I Don't Believe It Cursory, But Comparative. The Name With No Man - 04/12/2009 11:29:36 PM 1224 Views

Publication bookend Y2K? Camilla - 05/12/2009 10:36:01 AM 1144 Views

They're Thick Bookends.

The Name With No Man - 05/12/2009 06:12:06 PM 1080 Views

I'll Try to Have It Up Tomorrow Early. The Name With No Man - 04/12/2009 11:24:18 PM 1181 Views

Re: Well, let me offer a diverging view on the topic of speculative fiction. Camilla - 02/12/2009 12:28:30 AM 1090 Views

I like it. Ghavrel - 01/12/2009 10:28:48 PM 1092 Views

Thank you! Tom - 02/12/2009 01:43:05 AM 1239 Views

I find Michel Houellebecq to be one of the most intriguing writers of our time AgentOrange - 01/12/2009 11:14:05 PM 1185 Views

And, in recent memory, Orwell was a first-rate writer. Tom - 02/12/2009 01:44:29 AM 1176 Views

wait! there's somebody "dirtier" than Piers Anthony or Philip Jose Farmer??? imlad - 03/12/2009 04:00:28 PM 1137 Views

PJF is dirty? rebelaessedai - 04/12/2009 12:16:12 AM 1023 Views

Nice post. Legolas - 02/12/2009 12:03:09 AM 1192 Views

Perhaps you're right. Tom - 02/12/2009 01:47:10 AM 1061 Views

In its entirety? No.

Legolas - 02/12/2009 02:00:10 PM 1103 Views

I agree! Dragonsworn - 02/12/2009 12:17:10 AM 1305 Views

Thank you! Tom - 02/12/2009 01:50:22 AM 1010 Views

I guess I'll break my silence after almost a month and a half...

Larry - 02/12/2009 12:23:07 AM 1202 Views

Popcorn? Camilla - 02/12/2009 12:31:44 AM 1127 Views

Yes Larry - 02/12/2009 12:39:10 AM 1170 Views

Lovecraft? Camilla - 02/12/2009 12:51:55 AM 1161 Views

Re-read what I said Larry - 02/12/2009 12:55:08 AM 1229 Views

aahh Camilla - 02/12/2009 09:26:40 AM 1093 Views

I'm glad I could drive you from your Carthusian retreat, Larry

Tom - 02/12/2009 01:58:49 AM 1123 Views

It won't last for long - have too many things still to deal with in my life

Larry - 02/12/2009 02:36:15 AM 1121 Views

That's too bad. I'll have to learn monasterial sign language to continue a dialogue. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:49:01 AM 1079 Views

Well, I understand two out of those three languages Larry - 02/12/2009 03:56:00 AM 1094 Views

Larry, please tell me you weren't... imlad - 03/12/2009 04:33:32 PM 958 Views

I concur Camilla - 02/12/2009 12:27:13 AM 1083 Views

I like your framing of the issue (and Shannara is the Taco Bell of writing). Tom - 02/12/2009 02:03:51 AM 1128 Views

Thank you Camilla - 02/12/2009 09:30:42 AM 1078 Views

more like the mom&pop greasy-spoon diner of writing

*NM* imlad - 03/12/2009 05:00:21 PM 519 Views

I'm going to put this in my sig, if you don't mind. Ghavrel - 02/12/2009 03:31:13 AM 1152 Views

hehehe Camilla - 02/12/2009 09:31:28 AM 1036 Views

Am i the only one who reads books for fun? Wibble - 02/12/2009 12:33:52 AM 1181 Views

There isn't necessarily a contradiction Camilla - 02/12/2009 12:38:43 AM 1113 Views

I certainly didn't read The Lost Symbol for ANY cultural, intellectual or edifying reason. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:05:45 AM 1085 Views

it didn't come across that way imlad - 03/12/2009 05:15:36 PM 1108 Views

Of course not. Personally, I don't touch anything other than mind candy when I'm in school, Ghavrel - 02/12/2009 03:29:23 AM 1054 Views

one of the things that is important to me in books/shows imlad - 03/12/2009 05:20:29 PM 986 Views

We agree! Camilla - 03/12/2009 08:03:00 PM 1084 Views

WoT has decent characterization, though a little overwrought. Harrington... not so much. Ghavrel - 04/12/2009 04:26:43 AM 1242 Views

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is a science fiction/fantasy movie. Aeryn - 02/12/2009 12:54:08 AM 1145 Views

i was gonna point that out. thnks. *NM* imlad - 02/12/2009 01:13:47 AM 469 Views

Reading only speculative literature is limiting and monotonous. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:09:42 AM 1179 Views

I was going to say exactly that about "real" literature: monotonous and limiting. Aeryn - 02/12/2009 01:57:49 PM 1080 Views

I think his point was that only SF/F wasn't good food. Rebekah - 02/12/2009 02:15:29 PM 1052 Views

I would not disagree with you if you said that. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:27:08 PM 1010 Views

Most non-speculative fiction is fluff as well though. Werthead - 03/12/2009 05:38:32 PM 1003 Views

hear hear!! I agree totally wert-man imlad - 03/12/2009 07:20:09 PM 1071 Views

Which brings us back to my point. Camilla - 03/12/2009 08:04:24 PM 1124 Views

I would like to see the study and statistics that produced this answer. Werthead - 04/12/2009 05:24:02 PM 1013 Views

Re: I would like to see the study and statistics that produced this answer. Camilla - 04/12/2009 10:42:33 PM 1038 Views

Actually, it is a film that does not fit neatly into one category Camilla - 02/12/2009 11:16:20 AM 1128 Views

Science Fiction is the most PERTINANT form of fiction in the world today imlad - 02/12/2009 12:57:19 AM 1080 Views

don't get me wrong imlad - 02/12/2009 01:28:08 AM 1109 Views

"Pertinent", not "Pertinant". If it weren't in all caps I'd have ignored it this time. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:13:36 AM 1117 Views

SF&F and 'real literature' are not mutually exclusive Werthead - 02/12/2009 01:19:05 AM 1072 Views

No, they are not Tom - 02/12/2009 02:18:53 AM 1087 Views

This line is a load of bull bme - 03/12/2009 02:39:53 PM 1187 Views

So why don't we occasionally focus on "real" books that are technically spec fiction? nossy - 02/12/2009 01:25:04 AM 1052 Views

Why must we limit our focus in that way? Tom - 02/12/2009 02:20:11 AM 1040 Views

I don't see it as limiting or forcing. nossy - 02/12/2009 03:16:07 AM 1062 Views

"Elite club" or "elitist clique"?

Tom - 02/12/2009 03:52:11 AM 1042 Views

Either way, I want in. *NM* Camilla - 02/12/2009 11:33:52 AM 563 Views

Elite club is how we midwestern rednecks refer to Elitist Clique. *chews on a piece of hay* nossy - 02/12/2009 02:52:01 PM 1199 Views

I was born in the Midwest. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:01:36 PM 1109 Views

I know. nossy - 02/12/2009 03:12:05 PM 1040 Views

Green Acres in reverse, eh? Tom - 02/12/2009 03:38:09 PM 1077 Views

lmao Lupine - 02/12/2009 06:21:17 PM 1221 Views

*piledrivers you* nossy - 02/12/2009 06:28:02 PM 1009 Views

...! Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:17:57 PM 1055 Views

Admit it. You know what I'm talking about. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:29:31 PM 1066 Views

Re: Admit it. You know what I'm talking about. Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:31:26 PM 1015 Views

Vermont isn't in the Midwest. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:39:36 PM 1027 Views

Re: Vermont isn't in the Midwest. Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:42:47 PM 1057 Views

Huh! I really didn't think of you as being a masochist. Vodalus - 02/12/2009 01:51:55 AM 1024 Views

Thank you! Tom - 02/12/2009 02:21:00 AM 954 Views

Shitstorm! Vodalus - 02/12/2009 03:06:59 AM 1007 Views

Heh heh heh. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:45:40 AM 1056 Views

Read what you like to read. Craig - 02/12/2009 04:18:53 AM 1139 Views

I'll super size you. Fine. *NM* Tom - 02/12/2009 04:32:58 AM 530 Views

Oh noes! I'm getting word-fat! Craig - 02/12/2009 04:59:05 AM 1058 Views

I seem to have struck a nerve. Tom - 02/12/2009 05:20:27 AM 1094 Views

Apparently not the nerve you think, though. Craig - 02/12/2009 06:42:02 AM 1163 Views

Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:13:10 PM 1077 Views

Re: Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:26:59 PM 1087 Views

Agreed. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:30:50 PM 1005 Views

Re: Agreed. Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:32:06 PM 1000 Views

Re: Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. Craig - 02/12/2009 09:40:28 PM 1128 Views

I really did get under your skin Tom - 02/12/2009 09:58:18 PM 1000 Views

Craig - 02/12/2009 10:06:46 PM 996 Views

Tom as much as you raise some great points, you are being a condescending ass. lord-of-shadow - 03/12/2009 04:26:27 AM 1056 Views

You're entitled to your opinion. I don't care. Tom - 03/12/2009 04:51:18 AM 1036 Views

I keep replying. It's like a sickness. Craig - 03/12/2009 05:15:28 AM 1054 Views

Your subject line reinforces my opinion. Tom - 03/12/2009 05:31:50 AM 970 Views

Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. *NM* Ghavrel - 03/12/2009 07:21:05 AM 514 Views

LOL! rebelaessedai - 04/12/2009 12:21:36 AM 1013 Views

See, you just proved my point.

Tom - 04/12/2009 12:39:59 AM 1058 Views

Hm. Lupine - 02/12/2009 06:58:56 AM 1658 Views

Re-read my exact point. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:18:20 PM 1013 Views

No. Some kind of reading is indeed essential. Lupine - 02/12/2009 02:28:22 PM 1172 Views

There may have been an assumption about literature due to the reason for the post. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:37:47 PM 1071 Views

Somehow I get the feeling that this post hasn't caused quite as much controversy Lupine - 02/12/2009 06:53:18 AM 1163 Views

As I see it... Camilla - 02/12/2009 11:38:07 AM 1044 Views

Yep. Lupine - 02/12/2009 02:18:22 PM 1207 Views

Re: Yep. Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:35:38 PM 1070 Views

Euripides was poorly received, initially. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:57:58 PM 975 Views

Re: Euripides was poorly received, initially. Camilla - 02/12/2009 04:00:35 PM 1005 Views

I know. Tom - 02/12/2009 04:18:16 PM 1067 Views

Re: I know. Camilla - 02/12/2009 04:23:14 PM 1008 Views

That is why he's so good, in my opinion. Lupine - 02/12/2009 06:15:45 PM 1166 Views

I wasn't looking to generate controversy Tom - 02/12/2009 02:19:13 PM 1164 Views

Well... then I'm going to have to agree with Craig a bit. Lupine - 02/12/2009 02:32:59 PM 1162 Views

Well, I was being somewhat denigrating. "Unnecessarily" or not is a matter of debate. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:40:29 PM 1027 Views

Well, it's only "unnecessary" if you don't want people to be turned off of your message immediately. *NM* Craig - 02/12/2009 09:42:46 PM 516 Views

Judging from the responses, most people weren't turned off immediately. Tom - 02/12/2009 09:59:35 PM 1013 Views

All reading of fiction is a diversion by the very nature of the activity. Jacob - 02/12/2009 03:43:05 PM 1069 Views

Diversion from direct action, yes. Diversion from reality, no. Tom - 02/12/2009 04:15:48 PM 1026 Views

I maintain that all acts of reading fiction are a diversion from reality/ the realistic Jacob - 02/12/2009 05:43:16 PM 1044 Views

It seems a regressive argument to me. Tom - 03/12/2009 01:18:02 AM 991 Views

You're playing a game. Jacob - 03/12/2009 03:40:14 PM 1071 Views

I like your response. *NM* Aeryn - 03/12/2009 05:37:09 PM 484 Views

I fundamentally agree with much of what you're saying, but there is a distinction. Tom - 03/12/2009 06:44:02 PM 1059 Views

Oh I concur on that distinction. Jacob - 04/12/2009 09:06:34 PM 1108 Views

Spec fic is perhaps at it's best in autocracies? Ouranid - 02/12/2009 04:10:56 PM 991 Views

Bulgakov Camilla - 02/12/2009 04:25:17 PM 1042 Views

I've only read the first chapter of M&M. Ouranid - 02/12/2009 04:36:09 PM 1017 Views

Re: I've only read the first chapter of M&M. Camilla - 02/12/2009 04:40:16 PM 971 Views

Not the greatest Tolkien scholar, me. Ouranid - 02/12/2009 05:17:31 PM 1000 Views

Re: Not the greatest Tolkien scholar, me. Camilla - 02/12/2009 05:40:16 PM 1048 Views

I suppose. Ouranid - 02/12/2009 06:26:30 PM 1054 Views

Re: I suppose. Camilla - 02/12/2009 07:25:26 PM 1056 Views

Well, I don't hold escapism in such low esteem

*NM* Ouranid - 02/12/2009 07:56:13 PM 522 Views

That is what I mean Camilla - 02/12/2009 08:36:02 PM 980 Views

This was something I was exploring earlier. Tom - 02/12/2009 04:34:41 PM 1092 Views

Funny thing about the hivemind antagonist. Ouranid - 02/12/2009 05:13:30 PM 1057 Views

I didn't see the zombies reading speculative fiction

Tom - 02/12/2009 05:30:26 PM 1132 Views

Oh, they prefer Clive Cussler. Ouranid - 02/12/2009 06:23:42 PM 1103 Views

There's an interesting book in Russian that might be translated somewhere. Tom - 02/12/2009 10:02:48 PM 1116 Views

i think it comes more down to quality than genre. LadyLorraine - 02/12/2009 04:55:20 PM 1071 Views

I disagree with the ultimate conclusion but agree with many of your points. Tom - 02/12/2009 05:43:04 PM 1044 Views

the illiad is a classic LadyLorraine - 02/12/2009 06:35:24 PM 1066 Views

There's only one "L" in Iliad Tom - 02/12/2009 08:18:38 PM 1030 Views

Is there a safe answer to that question?

*NM* LadyLorraine - 02/12/2009 10:33:21 PM 547 Views

Maybe not.

*NM* Tom - 03/12/2009 12:59:09 AM 514 Views

It took me a few minutes to agree Beqi - 02/12/2009 07:04:59 PM 1016 Views

Well, I'm glad if you got something out of the post!

Tom - 02/12/2009 09:13:26 PM 1030 Views

Re: Well, I'm glad if you got something out of the post!

Camilla - 02/12/2009 09:20:49 PM 1007 Views

I don't know. I've only read about 30 pages so far. *NM* Tom - 02/12/2009 10:05:54 PM 544 Views

Many people have mentioned that there's quite a bit of good sff lit out there and you seem to agree. Cockatiel of Doom - 02/12/2009 07:33:42 PM 1140 Views

Hmmm Camilla - 02/12/2009 08:40:53 PM 1046 Views

Re: Hmmm Cockatiel of Doom - 02/12/2009 10:48:02 PM 1061 Views

The website is called "Read and Find Out". It doesn't specify what we're supposed to read.

Rebekah - 02/12/2009 08:42:19 PM 1111 Views

Anti the idea ? I see no evidence for this. AgentOrange - 02/12/2009 09:50:37 PM 1065 Views

Heh Rebekah - 02/12/2009 09:56:30 PM 1068 Views

What do you mean ? Almost all the repliers agree with Tom AgentOrange - 03/12/2009 11:01:08 AM 1036 Views

Re: What do you mean ? Almost all the repliers agree with Tom Camilla - 03/12/2009 11:10:35 AM 1055 Views

I see. You don't read announcements.

Rebekah - 03/12/2009 11:12:04 AM 1021 Views

No, but it does bill itself as science fiction/fantasy. Cockatiel of Doom - 02/12/2009 10:51:41 PM 1151 Views

Yes. Rebekah - 03/12/2009 12:01:30 AM 1147 Views

I think Rebekah and Camilla put it well. Tom - 02/12/2009 10:05:24 PM 1119 Views

I think they make good points, as I said above. Cockatiel of Doom - 02/12/2009 10:56:55 PM 1012 Views

I agree with in principle random thoughts - 02/12/2009 11:22:19 PM 999 Views

Certainly. People are free to skip any discussion. Tom - 03/12/2009 01:01:40 AM 1114 Views

I have a few objections. Dreaded Anomaly - 03/12/2009 12:24:43 AM 1081 Views

where else should we talk about it? LadyLorraine - 03/12/2009 12:37:26 AM 1039 Views

There's a difference between having threads about it and focusing the official book club on it. Dreaded Anomaly - 03/12/2009 12:40:53 AM 1137 Views

This is the Sci-Fi and Fantasy Board for site optimization purposes. Tom - 03/12/2009 01:07:39 AM 14076 Views

random thoughts stole my subject line Chas - 03/12/2009 01:56:07 AM 1084 Views

I think I could agree with a "comfort food" analogy Tom - 03/12/2009 02:12:01 AM 1095 Views

Re: I think I could agree with a "comfort food" analogy Chas - 03/12/2009 02:38:17 AM 1147 Views

That's it

Ouranid - 03/12/2009 04:02:28 AM 1153 Views

Question: is it really science fiction without one of the following: Tom - 03/12/2009 05:13:21 AM 1091 Views

Certainly Ouranid - 03/12/2009 06:13:38 AM 1137 Views

technically speaking, fantasy is classed as a sub heading under science fiction. *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/12/2009 02:51:12 PM 445 Views

According to whom? *NM* Camilla - 03/12/2009 03:55:45 PM 572 Views

Yeah. What she asked! *NM* Tom - 03/12/2009 09:23:55 PM 534 Views

Yes, it is but actually... Ellestra - 03/12/2009 09:31:44 PM 1068 Views

Eternal Sunshine doesn't have a mad scientist. Tom - 03/12/2009 10:09:01 PM 992 Views

Really? Ellestra - 04/12/2009 07:01:42 PM 1048 Views

But Dan Brown rocks da house!!!

*NM* everynametaken - 03/12/2009 02:16:47 AM 542 Views

*pumps fist* Give it up for Dan Brown! *NM* Tom - 03/12/2009 03:58:23 AM 537 Views

That's Dan "booyah" Brown!!! Booyah!!! *NM* everynametaken - 04/12/2009 02:00:56 AM 544 Views

another thing wrong with your argument imlad - 03/12/2009 03:30:19 PM 1048 Views

Absolutely not. And, as I said before, there's only one "L" in Iliad. Tom - 03/12/2009 06:53:35 PM 874 Views

sorry about my atrocious spelling

(including the one on pertinent) imlad - 03/12/2009 07:14:59 PM 1170 Views

No problem. On the substantive points: Tom - 03/12/2009 08:00:33 PM 1105 Views

more importantly, which I think it being lost in all this, Camilla - 03/12/2009 08:05:27 PM 1106 Views

I'm not reading the Iliad again, once was enough random thoughts - 04/12/2009 12:19:07 PM 1034 Views

is it just me, or is this now the largest post/thread yet on RAFO.com??? 168 replies so far! *NM* imlad - 03/12/2009 05:03:25 PM 476 Views

Well, for once we're discussing books...and their value.

*NM* Tom - 03/12/2009 06:54:01 PM 547 Views

Congratulations on the replies count Ellestra - 03/12/2009 09:30:41 PM 1168 Views

That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. Tom - 03/12/2009 10:50:29 PM 1120 Views

Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. Ellestra - 04/12/2009 07:44:56 PM 1105 Views

But the objective truth of a setting can be measured. Tom - 04/12/2009 10:37:10 PM 1030 Views

But does it make any difference in the objective value of the book? Ellestra - 06/12/2009 09:35:59 AM 1192 Views

YES. Tom - 06/12/2009 03:34:17 PM 1009 Views

NO Ellestra - 07/12/2009 08:40:33 PM 1094 Views

Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. AgentOrange - 04/12/2009 10:25:08 PM 1042 Views

Yes, it is worse with movies. Much worse, in fact. Tom - 04/12/2009 10:33:18 PM 1091 Views

Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. Ellestra - 06/12/2009 09:36:11 AM 1042 Views

Maybe we're different, but I don't care for FX AgentOrange - 06/12/2009 01:37:53 PM 988 Views

This is not about the personal taste Ellestra - 07/12/2009 08:50:34 PM 1091 Views

I've obviously missed the show here... rebelaessedai - 04/12/2009 12:14:30 AM 1013 Views

I'm not sure that's right. This thing just keeps growing. Tom - 04/12/2009 12:46:24 AM 1130 Views

What, your penis? rebelaessedai - 06/12/2009 02:40:09 AM 1014 Views

Don't you know it!

Tom - 06/12/2009 03:28:16 PM 930 Views

You talk the talk, that's for sure.

rebelaessedai - 07/12/2009 08:14:41 PM 1067 Views

Hate to break it to you... Craig - 07/12/2009 09:54:24 PM 1120 Views

I thought you were gonna tell me... rebelaessedai - 08/12/2009 03:07:54 PM 1180 Views

Metaphor versus literalism Werthead - 04/12/2009 05:42:03 PM 1083 Views

Metaphor divorced from the reality runs risks, however. Tom - 04/12/2009 10:25:47 PM 1003 Views

Honestly, the moral can always be dismissed as inapplicable if you want to dismiss it. Legolas - 05/12/2009 12:16:39 AM 1065 Views

While that's true, it's much harder to just dismiss Mockingbird. Ghavrel - 05/12/2009 03:57:42 AM 1031 Views

Then why read fiction at all? It's all a diversion. Werthead - 05/12/2009 04:16:06 PM 1024 Views

I think people should read non-fiction, and The Nine Hundred Days is an excellent book. Tom - 05/12/2009 04:41:50 PM 1016 Views

aha. but. Camilla - 07/12/2009 03:56:48 PM 1218 Views

Quoting Nietzsche is really hitting below the belt. Tom - 07/12/2009 09:12:34 PM 1160 Views

It is good I was only paraphrasing, then

Camilla - 08/12/2009 10:44:14 AM 1054 Views

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