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I've only read the first chapter of M&M. Ouranid Send a noteboard - 02/12/2009 04:36:09 PM
WHICH WAS AWESOME.



Bulgakov is an excellent example of just that.
Similarily, when reality is simply too overwhelming to be written about. Like in Tolkien.


How so in Tolkien's case?
*MySmiley*
Indeed, I marry them in their unlawful bed, with an open heart I affirm the true right of any man and woman to their dark slobbering nights which are rare enough, and against which too many laws conspire.
This message last edited by Ouranid on 02/12/2009 at 04:37:34 PM
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In Support of Other Fiction - 01/12/2009 09:06:14 PM 2067 Views
- 01/12/2009 09:22:56 PM 1136 Views
Re: - 01/12/2009 09:28:04 PM 1115 Views
Wow...we were just Santified *NM* - 03/12/2009 09:16:21 PM 562 Views
Well, let me offer a diverging view on the topic of speculative fiction. - 01/12/2009 09:46:35 PM 1043 Views
I would counter that the stripping away removes a level of reality. - 01/12/2009 10:05:28 PM 1127 Views
That's a Slippery Slope Because You Could Argue On the Same Basis That All Fiction Does That. - 01/12/2009 11:34:34 PM 1181 Views
I don't see the slippery slope, but rather, a confirmation of my original point. - 02/12/2009 01:41:24 AM 1126 Views
perhaps some university will do a study - 03/12/2009 03:55:54 PM 1082 Views
I'd like to see it - 03/12/2009 09:15:12 PM 1134 Views
I'll get to it once I finish my thesis - 03/12/2009 09:56:29 PM 1074 Views
If it looks like crap and smells like crap... - 03/12/2009 10:04:15 PM 1101 Views
I Think I'll Post a Thread on This. - 03/12/2009 06:47:05 PM 1056 Views
I'd like to see it. - 03/12/2009 09:23:07 PM 1099 Views
Regarding depth in Jordan - 03/12/2009 09:31:19 PM 1107 Views
I was thinking about that too - 03/12/2009 10:05:40 PM 1083 Views
Re: I was thinking about that too - 03/12/2009 10:09:26 PM 1175 Views
Destroying the Wheel is meaningless. - 03/12/2009 10:18:08 PM 1070 Views
Re: Destroying the Wheel is meaningless. - 03/12/2009 10:30:15 PM 1098 Views
I Totally Missed That. - 04/12/2009 10:45:56 PM 1153 Views
Re: I Totally Missed That. - 04/12/2009 10:47:59 PM 1137 Views
I Don't Believe It Cursory, But Comparative. - 04/12/2009 11:29:36 PM 1226 Views
Publication bookend Y2K? - 05/12/2009 10:36:01 AM 1149 Views
They're Thick Bookends. - 05/12/2009 06:12:06 PM 1082 Views
I'll Try to Have It Up Tomorrow Early. - 04/12/2009 11:24:18 PM 1185 Views
I like it. - 01/12/2009 10:28:48 PM 1097 Views
Thank you! - 02/12/2009 01:43:05 AM 1244 Views
I find Michel Houellebecq to be one of the most intriguing writers of our time - 01/12/2009 11:14:05 PM 1190 Views
And, in recent memory, Orwell was a first-rate writer. - 02/12/2009 01:44:29 AM 1179 Views
wait! there's somebody "dirtier" than Piers Anthony or Philip Jose Farmer??? - 03/12/2009 04:00:28 PM 1144 Views
PJF is dirty? - 04/12/2009 12:16:12 AM 1027 Views
Nice post. - 02/12/2009 12:03:09 AM 1194 Views
Perhaps you're right. - 02/12/2009 01:47:10 AM 1063 Views
In its entirety? No. - 02/12/2009 02:00:10 PM 1106 Views
I agree! - 02/12/2009 12:17:10 AM 1311 Views
Thank you! - 02/12/2009 01:50:22 AM 1013 Views
I guess I'll break my silence after almost a month and a half... - 02/12/2009 12:23:07 AM 1205 Views
Popcorn? - 02/12/2009 12:31:44 AM 1130 Views
Yes - 02/12/2009 12:39:10 AM 1174 Views
Lovecraft? - 02/12/2009 12:51:55 AM 1163 Views
Re-read what I said - 02/12/2009 12:55:08 AM 1232 Views
aahh - 02/12/2009 09:26:40 AM 1097 Views
Larry, please tell me you weren't... - 03/12/2009 04:33:32 PM 964 Views
I concur - 02/12/2009 12:27:13 AM 1087 Views
I like your framing of the issue (and Shannara is the Taco Bell of writing). - 02/12/2009 02:03:51 AM 1129 Views
Thank you - 02/12/2009 09:30:42 AM 1082 Views
more like the mom&pop greasy-spoon diner of writing *NM* - 03/12/2009 05:00:21 PM 522 Views
I'm going to put this in my sig, if you don't mind. - 02/12/2009 03:31:13 AM 1154 Views
hehehe - 02/12/2009 09:31:28 AM 1037 Views
Am i the only one who reads books for fun? - 02/12/2009 12:33:52 AM 1183 Views
There isn't necessarily a contradiction - 02/12/2009 12:38:43 AM 1115 Views
I certainly didn't read The Lost Symbol for ANY cultural, intellectual or edifying reason. - 02/12/2009 02:05:45 AM 1088 Views
it didn't come across that way - 03/12/2009 05:15:36 PM 1115 Views
Of course not. Personally, I don't touch anything other than mind candy when I'm in school, - 02/12/2009 03:29:23 AM 1056 Views
one of the things that is important to me in books/shows - 03/12/2009 05:20:29 PM 989 Views
We agree! - 03/12/2009 08:03:00 PM 1090 Views
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is a science fiction/fantasy movie. - 02/12/2009 12:54:08 AM 1151 Views
i was gonna point that out. thnks. *NM* - 02/12/2009 01:13:47 AM 471 Views
Reading only speculative literature is limiting and monotonous. - 02/12/2009 02:09:42 AM 1183 Views
I was going to say exactly that about "real" literature: monotonous and limiting. - 02/12/2009 01:57:49 PM 1084 Views
I think his point was that only SF/F wasn't good food. - 02/12/2009 02:15:29 PM 1058 Views
I would not disagree with you if you said that. - 02/12/2009 02:27:08 PM 1011 Views
Most non-speculative fiction is fluff as well though. - 03/12/2009 05:38:32 PM 1006 Views
hear hear!! I agree totally wert-man - 03/12/2009 07:20:09 PM 1075 Views
Which brings us back to my point. - 03/12/2009 08:04:24 PM 1128 Views
Actually, it is a film that does not fit neatly into one category - 02/12/2009 11:16:20 AM 1132 Views
Science Fiction is the most PERTINANT form of fiction in the world today - 02/12/2009 12:57:19 AM 1083 Views
don't get me wrong - 02/12/2009 01:28:08 AM 1113 Views
SF&F and 'real literature' are not mutually exclusive - 02/12/2009 01:19:05 AM 1074 Views
No, they are not - 02/12/2009 02:18:53 AM 1088 Views
This line is a load of bull - 03/12/2009 02:39:53 PM 1192 Views
So why don't we occasionally focus on "real" books that are technically spec fiction? - 02/12/2009 01:25:04 AM 1053 Views
Why must we limit our focus in that way? - 02/12/2009 02:20:11 AM 1043 Views
I don't see it as limiting or forcing. - 02/12/2009 03:16:07 AM 1066 Views
"Elite club" or "elitist clique"? - 02/12/2009 03:52:11 AM 1047 Views
Either way, I want in. *NM* - 02/12/2009 11:33:52 AM 565 Views
Elite club is how we midwestern rednecks refer to Elitist Clique. *chews on a piece of hay* - 02/12/2009 02:52:01 PM 1204 Views
I was born in the Midwest. - 02/12/2009 03:01:36 PM 1113 Views
I know. - 02/12/2009 03:12:05 PM 1044 Views
Green Acres in reverse, eh? - 02/12/2009 03:38:09 PM 1079 Views
lmao - 02/12/2009 06:21:17 PM 1228 Views
*piledrivers you* - 02/12/2009 06:28:02 PM 1011 Views
...! - 02/12/2009 03:17:57 PM 1061 Views
Admit it. You know what I'm talking about. - 02/12/2009 03:29:31 PM 1069 Views
Re: Admit it. You know what I'm talking about. - 02/12/2009 03:31:26 PM 1018 Views
Vermont isn't in the Midwest. - 02/12/2009 03:39:36 PM 1028 Views
Re: Vermont isn't in the Midwest. - 02/12/2009 03:42:47 PM 1062 Views
Huh! I really didn't think of you as being a masochist. - 02/12/2009 01:51:55 AM 1025 Views
Thank you! - 02/12/2009 02:21:00 AM 957 Views
Shitstorm! - 02/12/2009 03:06:59 AM 1009 Views
Heh heh heh. - 02/12/2009 03:45:40 AM 1056 Views
Read what you like to read. - 02/12/2009 04:18:53 AM 1140 Views
I'll super size you. Fine. *NM* - 02/12/2009 04:32:58 AM 532 Views
Oh noes! I'm getting word-fat! - 02/12/2009 04:59:05 AM 1062 Views
I seem to have struck a nerve. - 02/12/2009 05:20:27 AM 1096 Views
Apparently not the nerve you think, though. - 02/12/2009 06:42:02 AM 1166 Views
Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. - 02/12/2009 02:13:10 PM 1082 Views
Re: Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. - 02/12/2009 03:26:59 PM 1092 Views
Agreed. - 02/12/2009 03:30:50 PM 1009 Views
Re: Agreed. - 02/12/2009 03:32:06 PM 1004 Views
Re: Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. - 02/12/2009 09:40:28 PM 1134 Views
I really did get under your skin - 02/12/2009 09:58:18 PM 1005 Views
- 02/12/2009 10:06:46 PM 1003 Views
Tom as much as you raise some great points, you are being a condescending ass. - 03/12/2009 04:26:27 AM 1060 Views
You're entitled to your opinion. I don't care. - 03/12/2009 04:51:18 AM 1042 Views
I keep replying. It's like a sickness. - 03/12/2009 05:15:28 AM 1060 Views
Your subject line reinforces my opinion. - 03/12/2009 05:31:50 AM 977 Views
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. *NM* - 03/12/2009 07:21:05 AM 515 Views
LOL! - 04/12/2009 12:21:36 AM 1019 Views
See, you just proved my point. - 04/12/2009 12:39:59 AM 1063 Views
Hm. - 02/12/2009 06:58:56 AM 1662 Views
Re-read my exact point. - 02/12/2009 02:18:20 PM 1018 Views
No. Some kind of reading is indeed essential. - 02/12/2009 02:28:22 PM 1174 Views
Somehow I get the feeling that this post hasn't caused quite as much controversy - 02/12/2009 06:53:18 AM 1169 Views
As I see it... - 02/12/2009 11:38:07 AM 1049 Views
Yep. - 02/12/2009 02:18:22 PM 1213 Views
Re: Yep. - 02/12/2009 03:35:38 PM 1073 Views
Euripides was poorly received, initially. - 02/12/2009 03:57:58 PM 980 Views
Re: Euripides was poorly received, initially. - 02/12/2009 04:00:35 PM 1010 Views
I know. - 02/12/2009 04:18:16 PM 1072 Views
Re: I know. - 02/12/2009 04:23:14 PM 1011 Views
That is why he's so good, in my opinion. - 02/12/2009 06:15:45 PM 1170 Views
All reading of fiction is a diversion by the very nature of the activity. - 02/12/2009 03:43:05 PM 1072 Views
Diversion from direct action, yes. Diversion from reality, no. - 02/12/2009 04:15:48 PM 1029 Views
I maintain that all acts of reading fiction are a diversion from reality/ the realistic - 02/12/2009 05:43:16 PM 1046 Views
It seems a regressive argument to me. - 03/12/2009 01:18:02 AM 997 Views
You're playing a game. - 03/12/2009 03:40:14 PM 1078 Views
I like your response. *NM* - 03/12/2009 05:37:09 PM 485 Views
I fundamentally agree with much of what you're saying, but there is a distinction. - 03/12/2009 06:44:02 PM 1066 Views
Oh I concur on that distinction. - 04/12/2009 09:06:34 PM 1112 Views
Spec fic is perhaps at it's best in autocracies? - 02/12/2009 04:10:56 PM 994 Views
Bulgakov - 02/12/2009 04:25:17 PM 1048 Views
I've only read the first chapter of M&M. - 02/12/2009 04:36:09 PM 1020 Views
Re: I've only read the first chapter of M&M. - 02/12/2009 04:40:16 PM 972 Views
Not the greatest Tolkien scholar, me. - 02/12/2009 05:17:31 PM 1005 Views
Re: Not the greatest Tolkien scholar, me. - 02/12/2009 05:40:16 PM 1053 Views
I suppose. - 02/12/2009 06:26:30 PM 1055 Views
Re: I suppose. - 02/12/2009 07:25:26 PM 1061 Views
Well, I don't hold escapism in such low esteem *NM* - 02/12/2009 07:56:13 PM 526 Views
That is what I mean - 02/12/2009 08:36:02 PM 986 Views
This was something I was exploring earlier. - 02/12/2009 04:34:41 PM 1097 Views
Funny thing about the hivemind antagonist. - 02/12/2009 05:13:30 PM 1060 Views
I didn't see the zombies reading speculative fiction - 02/12/2009 05:30:26 PM 1134 Views
Oh, they prefer Clive Cussler. - 02/12/2009 06:23:42 PM 1110 Views
i think it comes more down to quality than genre. - 02/12/2009 04:55:20 PM 1076 Views
I disagree with the ultimate conclusion but agree with many of your points. - 02/12/2009 05:43:04 PM 1048 Views
the illiad is a classic - 02/12/2009 06:35:24 PM 1068 Views
There's only one "L" in Iliad - 02/12/2009 08:18:38 PM 1037 Views
Is there a safe answer to that question? *NM* - 02/12/2009 10:33:21 PM 548 Views
Maybe not. *NM* - 03/12/2009 12:59:09 AM 517 Views
It took me a few minutes to agree - 02/12/2009 07:04:59 PM 1022 Views
Well, I'm glad if you got something out of the post! - 02/12/2009 09:13:26 PM 1038 Views
Re: Well, I'm glad if you got something out of the post! - 02/12/2009 09:20:49 PM 1015 Views
I don't know. I've only read about 30 pages so far. *NM* - 02/12/2009 10:05:54 PM 547 Views
Many people have mentioned that there's quite a bit of good sff lit out there and you seem to agree. - 02/12/2009 07:33:42 PM 1144 Views
Hmmm - 02/12/2009 08:40:53 PM 1051 Views
Re: Hmmm - 02/12/2009 10:48:02 PM 1066 Views
The website is called "Read and Find Out". It doesn't specify what we're supposed to read. - 02/12/2009 08:42:19 PM 1114 Views
Anti the idea ? I see no evidence for this. - 02/12/2009 09:50:37 PM 1069 Views
Heh - 02/12/2009 09:56:30 PM 1072 Views
What do you mean ? Almost all the repliers agree with Tom - 03/12/2009 11:01:08 AM 1043 Views
Re: What do you mean ? Almost all the repliers agree with Tom - 03/12/2009 11:10:35 AM 1060 Views
I see. You don't read announcements. - 03/12/2009 11:12:04 AM 1027 Views
No, but it does bill itself as science fiction/fantasy. - 02/12/2009 10:51:41 PM 1156 Views
Yes. - 03/12/2009 12:01:30 AM 1153 Views
I think Rebekah and Camilla put it well. - 02/12/2009 10:05:24 PM 1125 Views
I think they make good points, as I said above. - 02/12/2009 10:56:55 PM 1018 Views
I agree with in principle - 02/12/2009 11:22:19 PM 1001 Views
Certainly. People are free to skip any discussion. - 03/12/2009 01:01:40 AM 1118 Views
I have a few objections. - 03/12/2009 12:24:43 AM 1086 Views
where else should we talk about it? - 03/12/2009 12:37:26 AM 1045 Views
random thoughts stole my subject line - 03/12/2009 01:56:07 AM 1087 Views
I think I could agree with a "comfort food" analogy - 03/12/2009 02:12:01 AM 1100 Views
Re: I think I could agree with a "comfort food" analogy - 03/12/2009 02:38:17 AM 1154 Views
That's it - 03/12/2009 04:02:28 AM 1158 Views
Question: is it really science fiction without one of the following: - 03/12/2009 05:13:21 AM 1096 Views
Certainly - 03/12/2009 06:13:38 AM 1142 Views
technically speaking, fantasy is classed as a sub heading under science fiction. *NM* - 03/12/2009 02:51:12 PM 449 Views
According to whom? *NM* - 03/12/2009 03:55:45 PM 574 Views
Yeah. What she asked! *NM* - 03/12/2009 09:23:55 PM 538 Views
Yes, it is but actually... - 03/12/2009 09:31:44 PM 1070 Views
Eternal Sunshine doesn't have a mad scientist. - 03/12/2009 10:09:01 PM 998 Views
Really? - 04/12/2009 07:01:42 PM 1051 Views
But Dan Brown rocks da house!!! *NM* - 03/12/2009 02:16:47 AM 543 Views
*pumps fist* Give it up for Dan Brown! *NM* - 03/12/2009 03:58:23 AM 539 Views
That's Dan "booyah" Brown!!! Booyah!!! *NM* - 04/12/2009 02:00:56 AM 547 Views
another thing wrong with your argument - 03/12/2009 03:30:19 PM 1053 Views
Absolutely not. And, as I said before, there's only one "L" in Iliad. - 03/12/2009 06:53:35 PM 878 Views
sorry about my atrocious spelling (including the one on pertinent) - 03/12/2009 07:14:59 PM 1177 Views
No problem. On the substantive points: - 03/12/2009 08:00:33 PM 1109 Views
more importantly, which I think it being lost in all this, - 03/12/2009 08:05:27 PM 1111 Views
I'm not reading the Iliad again, once was enough - 04/12/2009 12:19:07 PM 1041 Views
Congratulations on the replies count - 03/12/2009 09:30:41 PM 1175 Views
That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. - 03/12/2009 10:50:29 PM 1127 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. - 04/12/2009 07:44:56 PM 1107 Views
But the objective truth of a setting can be measured. - 04/12/2009 10:37:10 PM 1032 Views
But does it make any difference in the objective value of the book? - 06/12/2009 09:35:59 AM 1194 Views
YES. - 06/12/2009 03:34:17 PM 1012 Views
NO - 07/12/2009 08:40:33 PM 1097 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. - 04/12/2009 10:25:08 PM 1044 Views
Yes, it is worse with movies. Much worse, in fact. - 04/12/2009 10:33:18 PM 1093 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. - 06/12/2009 09:36:11 AM 1047 Views
Maybe we're different, but I don't care for FX - 06/12/2009 01:37:53 PM 991 Views
This is not about the personal taste - 07/12/2009 08:50:34 PM 1095 Views
I've obviously missed the show here... - 04/12/2009 12:14:30 AM 1017 Views
I'm not sure that's right. This thing just keeps growing. - 04/12/2009 12:46:24 AM 1134 Views
What, your penis? - 06/12/2009 02:40:09 AM 1016 Views
Don't you know it! - 06/12/2009 03:28:16 PM 932 Views
You talk the talk, that's for sure. - 07/12/2009 08:14:41 PM 1069 Views
Hate to break it to you... - 07/12/2009 09:54:24 PM 1122 Views
I thought you were gonna tell me... - 08/12/2009 03:07:54 PM 1186 Views
Metaphor versus literalism - 04/12/2009 05:42:03 PM 1090 Views
aha. but. - 07/12/2009 03:56:48 PM 1224 Views
Quoting Nietzsche is really hitting below the belt. - 07/12/2009 09:12:34 PM 1163 Views
It is good I was only paraphrasing, then - 08/12/2009 10:44:14 AM 1057 Views

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