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I don't see the slippery slope, but rather, a confirmation of my original point. Tom Send a noteboard - 02/12/2009 01:41:24 AM
As the work puts more and more distance between itself and reality, the risk of becoming simply a "diversion" increases. Certainly, the reader should be on the lookout for deeper messages, but that having been said, it's hard to really expect a deeper message from a lot of authors in the genre.

Jordan certainly provided a diversion and little more. The interesting thing is that Sanderson's novels show a much higher level of insight and thought, and so the series might end a bit "deeper", so to speak, than it would have if Jordan had written it.

To take the analogy of dwarves and racism, while such a story could prove a point, it also distances people from the historical realities of racism in the real world, which robs the issue of much of its complexity. On the one hand, it may make certain ideas about the inherent injustice in racism plain to people who wouldn't have thought about it that way, but on the other hand, many could dismiss it or see it as inapplicable to a real-world situation where they or their friends may be more emotionally involved. Of course, it might be very interesting to read.

The real point of this post is to try to encourage people to go beyond reading simply fantasy and science fiction because an incomparably large portion of it is little more than diversion. If it stirred a healthy debate, all the better. If people start to analyse their reading choices and wonder, "Am I missing something?" then they benefit.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
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In Support of Other Fiction - 01/12/2009 09:06:14 PM 2136 Views
- 01/12/2009 09:22:56 PM 1206 Views
Re: - 01/12/2009 09:28:04 PM 1189 Views
Wow...we were just Santified *NM* - 03/12/2009 09:16:21 PM 601 Views
Well, let me offer a diverging view on the topic of speculative fiction. - 01/12/2009 09:46:35 PM 1115 Views
I would counter that the stripping away removes a level of reality. - 01/12/2009 10:05:28 PM 1216 Views
That's a Slippery Slope Because You Could Argue On the Same Basis That All Fiction Does That. - 01/12/2009 11:34:34 PM 1246 Views
I don't see the slippery slope, but rather, a confirmation of my original point. - 02/12/2009 01:41:24 AM 1198 Views
perhaps some university will do a study - 03/12/2009 03:55:54 PM 1161 Views
I'd like to see it - 03/12/2009 09:15:12 PM 1211 Views
I'll get to it once I finish my thesis - 03/12/2009 09:56:29 PM 1146 Views
If it looks like crap and smells like crap... - 03/12/2009 10:04:15 PM 1169 Views
I Think I'll Post a Thread on This. - 03/12/2009 06:47:05 PM 1127 Views
I'd like to see it. - 03/12/2009 09:23:07 PM 1178 Views
Regarding depth in Jordan - 03/12/2009 09:31:19 PM 1144 Views
I was thinking about that too - 03/12/2009 10:05:40 PM 1143 Views
Re: I was thinking about that too - 03/12/2009 10:09:26 PM 1247 Views
Destroying the Wheel is meaningless. - 03/12/2009 10:18:08 PM 1140 Views
Re: Destroying the Wheel is meaningless. - 03/12/2009 10:30:15 PM 1172 Views
I Totally Missed That. - 04/12/2009 10:45:56 PM 1225 Views
Re: I Totally Missed That. - 04/12/2009 10:47:59 PM 1215 Views
I Don't Believe It Cursory, But Comparative. - 04/12/2009 11:29:36 PM 1296 Views
Publication bookend Y2K? - 05/12/2009 10:36:01 AM 1217 Views
They're Thick Bookends. - 05/12/2009 06:12:06 PM 1159 Views
I'll Try to Have It Up Tomorrow Early. - 04/12/2009 11:24:18 PM 1246 Views
I like it. - 01/12/2009 10:28:48 PM 1168 Views
Thank you! - 02/12/2009 01:43:05 AM 1317 Views
I find Michel Houellebecq to be one of the most intriguing writers of our time - 01/12/2009 11:14:05 PM 1258 Views
And, in recent memory, Orwell was a first-rate writer. - 02/12/2009 01:44:29 AM 1247 Views
wait! there's somebody "dirtier" than Piers Anthony or Philip Jose Farmer??? - 03/12/2009 04:00:28 PM 1221 Views
PJF is dirty? - 04/12/2009 12:16:12 AM 1086 Views
Nice post. - 02/12/2009 12:03:09 AM 1272 Views
Perhaps you're right. - 02/12/2009 01:47:10 AM 1129 Views
In its entirety? No. - 02/12/2009 02:00:10 PM 1173 Views
I agree! - 02/12/2009 12:17:10 AM 1378 Views
Thank you! - 02/12/2009 01:50:22 AM 1092 Views
I guess I'll break my silence after almost a month and a half... - 02/12/2009 12:23:07 AM 1275 Views
Popcorn? - 02/12/2009 12:31:44 AM 1204 Views
Yes - 02/12/2009 12:39:10 AM 1242 Views
Lovecraft? - 02/12/2009 12:51:55 AM 1237 Views
Re-read what I said - 02/12/2009 12:55:08 AM 1297 Views
aahh - 02/12/2009 09:26:40 AM 1160 Views
Larry, please tell me you weren't... - 03/12/2009 04:33:32 PM 1027 Views
I concur - 02/12/2009 12:27:13 AM 1129 Views
I like your framing of the issue (and Shannara is the Taco Bell of writing). - 02/12/2009 02:03:51 AM 1210 Views
Thank you - 02/12/2009 09:30:42 AM 1147 Views
more like the mom&pop greasy-spoon diner of writing *NM* - 03/12/2009 05:00:21 PM 553 Views
I'm going to put this in my sig, if you don't mind. - 02/12/2009 03:31:13 AM 1221 Views
hehehe - 02/12/2009 09:31:28 AM 1103 Views
Am i the only one who reads books for fun? - 02/12/2009 12:33:52 AM 1252 Views
There isn't necessarily a contradiction - 02/12/2009 12:38:43 AM 1200 Views
I certainly didn't read The Lost Symbol for ANY cultural, intellectual or edifying reason. - 02/12/2009 02:05:45 AM 1156 Views
it didn't come across that way - 03/12/2009 05:15:36 PM 1179 Views
Of course not. Personally, I don't touch anything other than mind candy when I'm in school, - 02/12/2009 03:29:23 AM 1126 Views
one of the things that is important to me in books/shows - 03/12/2009 05:20:29 PM 1071 Views
We agree! - 03/12/2009 08:03:00 PM 1156 Views
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is a science fiction/fantasy movie. - 02/12/2009 12:54:08 AM 1219 Views
i was gonna point that out. thnks. *NM* - 02/12/2009 01:13:47 AM 505 Views
Reading only speculative literature is limiting and monotonous. - 02/12/2009 02:09:42 AM 1248 Views
I was going to say exactly that about "real" literature: monotonous and limiting. - 02/12/2009 01:57:49 PM 1158 Views
I think his point was that only SF/F wasn't good food. - 02/12/2009 02:15:29 PM 1140 Views
I would not disagree with you if you said that. - 02/12/2009 02:27:08 PM 1084 Views
Most non-speculative fiction is fluff as well though. - 03/12/2009 05:38:32 PM 1088 Views
hear hear!! I agree totally wert-man - 03/12/2009 07:20:09 PM 1142 Views
Which brings us back to my point. - 03/12/2009 08:04:24 PM 1200 Views
Actually, it is a film that does not fit neatly into one category - 02/12/2009 11:16:20 AM 1212 Views
Science Fiction is the most PERTINANT form of fiction in the world today - 02/12/2009 12:57:19 AM 1155 Views
don't get me wrong - 02/12/2009 01:28:08 AM 1184 Views
SF&F and 'real literature' are not mutually exclusive - 02/12/2009 01:19:05 AM 1144 Views
No, they are not - 02/12/2009 02:18:53 AM 1156 Views
This line is a load of bull - 03/12/2009 02:39:53 PM 1264 Views
So why don't we occasionally focus on "real" books that are technically spec fiction? - 02/12/2009 01:25:04 AM 1119 Views
Why must we limit our focus in that way? - 02/12/2009 02:20:11 AM 1126 Views
I don't see it as limiting or forcing. - 02/12/2009 03:16:07 AM 1135 Views
"Elite club" or "elitist clique"? - 02/12/2009 03:52:11 AM 1119 Views
Either way, I want in. *NM* - 02/12/2009 11:33:52 AM 593 Views
Elite club is how we midwestern rednecks refer to Elitist Clique. *chews on a piece of hay* - 02/12/2009 02:52:01 PM 1277 Views
I was born in the Midwest. - 02/12/2009 03:01:36 PM 1177 Views
I know. - 02/12/2009 03:12:05 PM 1113 Views
Green Acres in reverse, eh? - 02/12/2009 03:38:09 PM 1155 Views
lmao - 02/12/2009 06:21:17 PM 1306 Views
*piledrivers you* - 02/12/2009 06:28:02 PM 1089 Views
...! - 02/12/2009 03:17:57 PM 1125 Views
Admit it. You know what I'm talking about. - 02/12/2009 03:29:31 PM 1142 Views
Re: Admit it. You know what I'm talking about. - 02/12/2009 03:31:26 PM 1091 Views
Vermont isn't in the Midwest. - 02/12/2009 03:39:36 PM 1093 Views
Re: Vermont isn't in the Midwest. - 02/12/2009 03:42:47 PM 1146 Views
Huh! I really didn't think of you as being a masochist. - 02/12/2009 01:51:55 AM 1118 Views
Thank you! - 02/12/2009 02:21:00 AM 1018 Views
Shitstorm! - 02/12/2009 03:06:59 AM 1082 Views
Heh heh heh. - 02/12/2009 03:45:40 AM 1134 Views
Read what you like to read. - 02/12/2009 04:18:53 AM 1213 Views
I'll super size you. Fine. *NM* - 02/12/2009 04:32:58 AM 556 Views
Oh noes! I'm getting word-fat! - 02/12/2009 04:59:05 AM 1134 Views
I seem to have struck a nerve. - 02/12/2009 05:20:27 AM 1167 Views
Apparently not the nerve you think, though. - 02/12/2009 06:42:02 AM 1239 Views
Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. - 02/12/2009 02:13:10 PM 1131 Views
Re: Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. - 02/12/2009 03:26:59 PM 1162 Views
Agreed. - 02/12/2009 03:30:50 PM 1083 Views
Re: Agreed. - 02/12/2009 03:32:06 PM 1080 Views
Re: Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. - 02/12/2009 09:40:28 PM 1205 Views
I really did get under your skin - 02/12/2009 09:58:18 PM 1072 Views
- 02/12/2009 10:06:46 PM 1072 Views
Tom as much as you raise some great points, you are being a condescending ass. - 03/12/2009 04:26:27 AM 1139 Views
You're entitled to your opinion. I don't care. - 03/12/2009 04:51:18 AM 1103 Views
I keep replying. It's like a sickness. - 03/12/2009 05:15:28 AM 1121 Views
Your subject line reinforces my opinion. - 03/12/2009 05:31:50 AM 1043 Views
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. *NM* - 03/12/2009 07:21:05 AM 548 Views
LOL! - 04/12/2009 12:21:36 AM 1092 Views
See, you just proved my point. - 04/12/2009 12:39:59 AM 1136 Views
Hm. - 02/12/2009 06:58:56 AM 1734 Views
Re-read my exact point. - 02/12/2009 02:18:20 PM 1060 Views
No. Some kind of reading is indeed essential. - 02/12/2009 02:28:22 PM 1235 Views
Somehow I get the feeling that this post hasn't caused quite as much controversy - 02/12/2009 06:53:18 AM 1232 Views
As I see it... - 02/12/2009 11:38:07 AM 1121 Views
Yep. - 02/12/2009 02:18:22 PM 1273 Views
Re: Yep. - 02/12/2009 03:35:38 PM 1137 Views
Euripides was poorly received, initially. - 02/12/2009 03:57:58 PM 1052 Views
Re: Euripides was poorly received, initially. - 02/12/2009 04:00:35 PM 1077 Views
I know. - 02/12/2009 04:18:16 PM 1146 Views
Re: I know. - 02/12/2009 04:23:14 PM 1086 Views
That is why he's so good, in my opinion. - 02/12/2009 06:15:45 PM 1239 Views
All reading of fiction is a diversion by the very nature of the activity. - 02/12/2009 03:43:05 PM 1112 Views
Diversion from direct action, yes. Diversion from reality, no. - 02/12/2009 04:15:48 PM 1095 Views
I maintain that all acts of reading fiction are a diversion from reality/ the realistic - 02/12/2009 05:43:16 PM 1113 Views
It seems a regressive argument to me. - 03/12/2009 01:18:02 AM 1068 Views
You're playing a game. - 03/12/2009 03:40:14 PM 1151 Views
I like your response. *NM* - 03/12/2009 05:37:09 PM 517 Views
I fundamentally agree with much of what you're saying, but there is a distinction. - 03/12/2009 06:44:02 PM 1138 Views
Oh I concur on that distinction. - 04/12/2009 09:06:34 PM 1184 Views
Spec fic is perhaps at it's best in autocracies? - 02/12/2009 04:10:56 PM 1059 Views
Bulgakov - 02/12/2009 04:25:17 PM 1126 Views
I've only read the first chapter of M&M. - 02/12/2009 04:36:09 PM 1099 Views
Re: I've only read the first chapter of M&M. - 02/12/2009 04:40:16 PM 1047 Views
Not the greatest Tolkien scholar, me. - 02/12/2009 05:17:31 PM 1089 Views
Re: Not the greatest Tolkien scholar, me. - 02/12/2009 05:40:16 PM 1136 Views
I suppose. - 02/12/2009 06:26:30 PM 1129 Views
Re: I suppose. - 02/12/2009 07:25:26 PM 1129 Views
Well, I don't hold escapism in such low esteem *NM* - 02/12/2009 07:56:13 PM 550 Views
That is what I mean - 02/12/2009 08:36:02 PM 1059 Views
This was something I was exploring earlier. - 02/12/2009 04:34:41 PM 1169 Views
Funny thing about the hivemind antagonist. - 02/12/2009 05:13:30 PM 1122 Views
I didn't see the zombies reading speculative fiction - 02/12/2009 05:30:26 PM 1201 Views
Oh, they prefer Clive Cussler. - 02/12/2009 06:23:42 PM 1180 Views
i think it comes more down to quality than genre. - 02/12/2009 04:55:20 PM 1151 Views
I disagree with the ultimate conclusion but agree with many of your points. - 02/12/2009 05:43:04 PM 1099 Views
the illiad is a classic - 02/12/2009 06:35:24 PM 1137 Views
There's only one "L" in Iliad - 02/12/2009 08:18:38 PM 1100 Views
Is there a safe answer to that question? *NM* - 02/12/2009 10:33:21 PM 576 Views
Maybe not. *NM* - 03/12/2009 12:59:09 AM 537 Views
It took me a few minutes to agree - 02/12/2009 07:04:59 PM 1096 Views
Well, I'm glad if you got something out of the post! - 02/12/2009 09:13:26 PM 1120 Views
Re: Well, I'm glad if you got something out of the post! - 02/12/2009 09:20:49 PM 1084 Views
I don't know. I've only read about 30 pages so far. *NM* - 02/12/2009 10:05:54 PM 577 Views
Many people have mentioned that there's quite a bit of good sff lit out there and you seem to agree. - 02/12/2009 07:33:42 PM 1221 Views
Hmmm - 02/12/2009 08:40:53 PM 1115 Views
Re: Hmmm - 02/12/2009 10:48:02 PM 1138 Views
The website is called "Read and Find Out". It doesn't specify what we're supposed to read. - 02/12/2009 08:42:19 PM 1185 Views
Anti the idea ? I see no evidence for this. - 02/12/2009 09:50:37 PM 1143 Views
Heh - 02/12/2009 09:56:30 PM 1148 Views
What do you mean ? Almost all the repliers agree with Tom - 03/12/2009 11:01:08 AM 1109 Views
Re: What do you mean ? Almost all the repliers agree with Tom - 03/12/2009 11:10:35 AM 1139 Views
I see. You don't read announcements. - 03/12/2009 11:12:04 AM 1091 Views
No, but it does bill itself as science fiction/fantasy. - 02/12/2009 10:51:41 PM 1222 Views
Yes. - 03/12/2009 12:01:30 AM 1218 Views
I think Rebekah and Camilla put it well. - 02/12/2009 10:05:24 PM 1195 Views
I think they make good points, as I said above. - 02/12/2009 10:56:55 PM 1096 Views
I agree with in principle - 02/12/2009 11:22:19 PM 1072 Views
Certainly. People are free to skip any discussion. - 03/12/2009 01:01:40 AM 1196 Views
I have a few objections. - 03/12/2009 12:24:43 AM 1157 Views
where else should we talk about it? - 03/12/2009 12:37:26 AM 1115 Views
random thoughts stole my subject line - 03/12/2009 01:56:07 AM 1157 Views
I think I could agree with a "comfort food" analogy - 03/12/2009 02:12:01 AM 1177 Views
Re: I think I could agree with a "comfort food" analogy - 03/12/2009 02:38:17 AM 1230 Views
That's it - 03/12/2009 04:02:28 AM 1234 Views
Question: is it really science fiction without one of the following: - 03/12/2009 05:13:21 AM 1156 Views
Certainly - 03/12/2009 06:13:38 AM 1212 Views
technically speaking, fantasy is classed as a sub heading under science fiction. *NM* - 03/12/2009 02:51:12 PM 466 Views
According to whom? *NM* - 03/12/2009 03:55:45 PM 601 Views
Yeah. What she asked! *NM* - 03/12/2009 09:23:55 PM 568 Views
Yes, it is but actually... - 03/12/2009 09:31:44 PM 1135 Views
Eternal Sunshine doesn't have a mad scientist. - 03/12/2009 10:09:01 PM 1068 Views
Really? - 04/12/2009 07:01:42 PM 1108 Views
But Dan Brown rocks da house!!! *NM* - 03/12/2009 02:16:47 AM 569 Views
*pumps fist* Give it up for Dan Brown! *NM* - 03/12/2009 03:58:23 AM 561 Views
That's Dan "booyah" Brown!!! Booyah!!! *NM* - 04/12/2009 02:00:56 AM 577 Views
another thing wrong with your argument - 03/12/2009 03:30:19 PM 1123 Views
Absolutely not. And, as I said before, there's only one "L" in Iliad. - 03/12/2009 06:53:35 PM 943 Views
sorry about my atrocious spelling (including the one on pertinent) - 03/12/2009 07:14:59 PM 1254 Views
No problem. On the substantive points: - 03/12/2009 08:00:33 PM 1181 Views
more importantly, which I think it being lost in all this, - 03/12/2009 08:05:27 PM 1150 Views
I'm not reading the Iliad again, once was enough - 04/12/2009 12:19:07 PM 1106 Views
Congratulations on the replies count - 03/12/2009 09:30:41 PM 1250 Views
That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. - 03/12/2009 10:50:29 PM 1168 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. - 04/12/2009 07:44:56 PM 1183 Views
But the objective truth of a setting can be measured. - 04/12/2009 10:37:10 PM 1103 Views
But does it make any difference in the objective value of the book? - 06/12/2009 09:35:59 AM 1266 Views
YES. - 06/12/2009 03:34:17 PM 1051 Views
NO - 07/12/2009 08:40:33 PM 1159 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. - 04/12/2009 10:25:08 PM 1124 Views
Yes, it is worse with movies. Much worse, in fact. - 04/12/2009 10:33:18 PM 1159 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. - 06/12/2009 09:36:11 AM 1129 Views
Maybe we're different, but I don't care for FX - 06/12/2009 01:37:53 PM 1063 Views
This is not about the personal taste - 07/12/2009 08:50:34 PM 1165 Views
I've obviously missed the show here... - 04/12/2009 12:14:30 AM 1087 Views
I'm not sure that's right. This thing just keeps growing. - 04/12/2009 12:46:24 AM 1202 Views
What, your penis? - 06/12/2009 02:40:09 AM 1096 Views
Don't you know it! - 06/12/2009 03:28:16 PM 1004 Views
You talk the talk, that's for sure. - 07/12/2009 08:14:41 PM 1148 Views
Hate to break it to you... - 07/12/2009 09:54:24 PM 1193 Views
I thought you were gonna tell me... - 08/12/2009 03:07:54 PM 1261 Views
Metaphor versus literalism - 04/12/2009 05:42:03 PM 1160 Views
aha. but. - 07/12/2009 03:56:48 PM 1295 Views
Quoting Nietzsche is really hitting below the belt. - 07/12/2009 09:12:34 PM 1235 Views
It is good I was only paraphrasing, then - 08/12/2009 10:44:14 AM 1132 Views

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