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I don't see the slippery slope, but rather, a confirmation of my original point. Tom Send a noteboard - 02/12/2009 01:41:24 AM
As the work puts more and more distance between itself and reality, the risk of becoming simply a "diversion" increases. Certainly, the reader should be on the lookout for deeper messages, but that having been said, it's hard to really expect a deeper message from a lot of authors in the genre.

Jordan certainly provided a diversion and little more. The interesting thing is that Sanderson's novels show a much higher level of insight and thought, and so the series might end a bit "deeper", so to speak, than it would have if Jordan had written it.

To take the analogy of dwarves and racism, while such a story could prove a point, it also distances people from the historical realities of racism in the real world, which robs the issue of much of its complexity. On the one hand, it may make certain ideas about the inherent injustice in racism plain to people who wouldn't have thought about it that way, but on the other hand, many could dismiss it or see it as inapplicable to a real-world situation where they or their friends may be more emotionally involved. Of course, it might be very interesting to read.

The real point of this post is to try to encourage people to go beyond reading simply fantasy and science fiction because an incomparably large portion of it is little more than diversion. If it stirred a healthy debate, all the better. If people start to analyse their reading choices and wonder, "Am I missing something?" then they benefit.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
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In Support of Other Fiction - 01/12/2009 09:06:14 PM 2194 Views
- 01/12/2009 09:22:56 PM 1266 Views
Re: - 01/12/2009 09:28:04 PM 1240 Views
Wow...we were just Santified *NM* - 03/12/2009 09:16:21 PM 631 Views
Well, let me offer a diverging view on the topic of speculative fiction. - 01/12/2009 09:46:35 PM 1164 Views
I would counter that the stripping away removes a level of reality. - 01/12/2009 10:05:28 PM 1269 Views
That's a Slippery Slope Because You Could Argue On the Same Basis That All Fiction Does That. - 01/12/2009 11:34:34 PM 1300 Views
I don't see the slippery slope, but rather, a confirmation of my original point. - 02/12/2009 01:41:24 AM 1253 Views
perhaps some university will do a study - 03/12/2009 03:55:54 PM 1229 Views
I'd like to see it - 03/12/2009 09:15:12 PM 1275 Views
I'll get to it once I finish my thesis - 03/12/2009 09:56:29 PM 1203 Views
If it looks like crap and smells like crap... - 03/12/2009 10:04:15 PM 1218 Views
I Think I'll Post a Thread on This. - 03/12/2009 06:47:05 PM 1176 Views
I'd like to see it. - 03/12/2009 09:23:07 PM 1228 Views
Regarding depth in Jordan - 03/12/2009 09:31:19 PM 1201 Views
I was thinking about that too - 03/12/2009 10:05:40 PM 1190 Views
Re: I was thinking about that too - 03/12/2009 10:09:26 PM 1293 Views
Destroying the Wheel is meaningless. - 03/12/2009 10:18:08 PM 1188 Views
Re: Destroying the Wheel is meaningless. - 03/12/2009 10:30:15 PM 1215 Views
I Totally Missed That. - 04/12/2009 10:45:56 PM 1284 Views
Re: I Totally Missed That. - 04/12/2009 10:47:59 PM 1272 Views
I Don't Believe It Cursory, But Comparative. - 04/12/2009 11:29:36 PM 1365 Views
Publication bookend Y2K? - 05/12/2009 10:36:01 AM 1267 Views
They're Thick Bookends. - 05/12/2009 06:12:06 PM 1210 Views
I'll Try to Have It Up Tomorrow Early. - 04/12/2009 11:24:18 PM 1303 Views
I like it. - 01/12/2009 10:28:48 PM 1226 Views
Thank you! - 02/12/2009 01:43:05 AM 1368 Views
I find Michel Houellebecq to be one of the most intriguing writers of our time - 01/12/2009 11:14:05 PM 1306 Views
And, in recent memory, Orwell was a first-rate writer. - 02/12/2009 01:44:29 AM 1301 Views
wait! there's somebody "dirtier" than Piers Anthony or Philip Jose Farmer??? - 03/12/2009 04:00:28 PM 1271 Views
PJF is dirty? - 04/12/2009 12:16:12 AM 1135 Views
Nice post. - 02/12/2009 12:03:09 AM 1323 Views
Perhaps you're right. - 02/12/2009 01:47:10 AM 1183 Views
In its entirety? No. - 02/12/2009 02:00:10 PM 1227 Views
I agree! - 02/12/2009 12:17:10 AM 1499 Views
Thank you! - 02/12/2009 01:50:22 AM 1144 Views
I guess I'll break my silence after almost a month and a half... - 02/12/2009 12:23:07 AM 1325 Views
Popcorn? - 02/12/2009 12:31:44 AM 1254 Views
Yes - 02/12/2009 12:39:10 AM 1303 Views
Lovecraft? - 02/12/2009 12:51:55 AM 1289 Views
Re-read what I said - 02/12/2009 12:55:08 AM 1343 Views
aahh - 02/12/2009 09:26:40 AM 1217 Views
Larry, please tell me you weren't... - 03/12/2009 04:33:32 PM 1074 Views
I concur - 02/12/2009 12:27:13 AM 1185 Views
I like your framing of the issue (and Shannara is the Taco Bell of writing). - 02/12/2009 02:03:51 AM 1269 Views
Thank you - 02/12/2009 09:30:42 AM 1201 Views
more like the mom&pop greasy-spoon diner of writing *NM* - 03/12/2009 05:00:21 PM 581 Views
I'm going to put this in my sig, if you don't mind. - 02/12/2009 03:31:13 AM 1269 Views
hehehe - 02/12/2009 09:31:28 AM 1152 Views
Am i the only one who reads books for fun? - 02/12/2009 12:33:52 AM 1305 Views
There isn't necessarily a contradiction - 02/12/2009 12:38:43 AM 1256 Views
I certainly didn't read The Lost Symbol for ANY cultural, intellectual or edifying reason. - 02/12/2009 02:05:45 AM 1205 Views
it didn't come across that way - 03/12/2009 05:15:36 PM 1223 Views
Of course not. Personally, I don't touch anything other than mind candy when I'm in school, - 02/12/2009 03:29:23 AM 1184 Views
one of the things that is important to me in books/shows - 03/12/2009 05:20:29 PM 1129 Views
We agree! - 03/12/2009 08:03:00 PM 1207 Views
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is a science fiction/fantasy movie. - 02/12/2009 12:54:08 AM 1266 Views
i was gonna point that out. thnks. *NM* - 02/12/2009 01:13:47 AM 530 Views
Reading only speculative literature is limiting and monotonous. - 02/12/2009 02:09:42 AM 1298 Views
I was going to say exactly that about "real" literature: monotonous and limiting. - 02/12/2009 01:57:49 PM 1209 Views
I think his point was that only SF/F wasn't good food. - 02/12/2009 02:15:29 PM 1198 Views
I would not disagree with you if you said that. - 02/12/2009 02:27:08 PM 1136 Views
Most non-speculative fiction is fluff as well though. - 03/12/2009 05:38:32 PM 1130 Views
hear hear!! I agree totally wert-man - 03/12/2009 07:20:09 PM 1197 Views
Which brings us back to my point. - 03/12/2009 08:04:24 PM 1250 Views
Actually, it is a film that does not fit neatly into one category - 02/12/2009 11:16:20 AM 1262 Views
Science Fiction is the most PERTINANT form of fiction in the world today - 02/12/2009 12:57:19 AM 1203 Views
don't get me wrong - 02/12/2009 01:28:08 AM 1231 Views
SF&F and 'real literature' are not mutually exclusive - 02/12/2009 01:19:05 AM 1195 Views
No, they are not - 02/12/2009 02:18:53 AM 1204 Views
This line is a load of bull - 03/12/2009 02:39:53 PM 1326 Views
So why don't we occasionally focus on "real" books that are technically spec fiction? - 02/12/2009 01:25:04 AM 1172 Views
Why must we limit our focus in that way? - 02/12/2009 02:20:11 AM 1176 Views
I don't see it as limiting or forcing. - 02/12/2009 03:16:07 AM 1181 Views
"Elite club" or "elitist clique"? - 02/12/2009 03:52:11 AM 1175 Views
Either way, I want in. *NM* - 02/12/2009 11:33:52 AM 620 Views
Elite club is how we midwestern rednecks refer to Elitist Clique. *chews on a piece of hay* - 02/12/2009 02:52:01 PM 1328 Views
I was born in the Midwest. - 02/12/2009 03:01:36 PM 1229 Views
I know. - 02/12/2009 03:12:05 PM 1162 Views
Green Acres in reverse, eh? - 02/12/2009 03:38:09 PM 1205 Views
lmao - 02/12/2009 06:21:17 PM 1356 Views
*piledrivers you* - 02/12/2009 06:28:02 PM 1138 Views
...! - 02/12/2009 03:17:57 PM 1173 Views
Admit it. You know what I'm talking about. - 02/12/2009 03:29:31 PM 1192 Views
Re: Admit it. You know what I'm talking about. - 02/12/2009 03:31:26 PM 1146 Views
Vermont isn't in the Midwest. - 02/12/2009 03:39:36 PM 1145 Views
Re: Vermont isn't in the Midwest. - 02/12/2009 03:42:47 PM 1195 Views
Huh! I really didn't think of you as being a masochist. - 02/12/2009 01:51:55 AM 1170 Views
Thank you! - 02/12/2009 02:21:00 AM 1069 Views
Shitstorm! - 02/12/2009 03:06:59 AM 1133 Views
Heh heh heh. - 02/12/2009 03:45:40 AM 1187 Views
Read what you like to read. - 02/12/2009 04:18:53 AM 1269 Views
I'll super size you. Fine. *NM* - 02/12/2009 04:32:58 AM 584 Views
Oh noes! I'm getting word-fat! - 02/12/2009 04:59:05 AM 1184 Views
I seem to have struck a nerve. - 02/12/2009 05:20:27 AM 1216 Views
Apparently not the nerve you think, though. - 02/12/2009 06:42:02 AM 1296 Views
Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. - 02/12/2009 02:13:10 PM 1186 Views
Re: Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. - 02/12/2009 03:26:59 PM 1216 Views
Agreed. - 02/12/2009 03:30:50 PM 1128 Views
Re: Agreed. - 02/12/2009 03:32:06 PM 1127 Views
Re: Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. - 02/12/2009 09:40:28 PM 1261 Views
I really did get under your skin - 02/12/2009 09:58:18 PM 1121 Views
- 02/12/2009 10:06:46 PM 1118 Views
Tom as much as you raise some great points, you are being a condescending ass. - 03/12/2009 04:26:27 AM 1199 Views
You're entitled to your opinion. I don't care. - 03/12/2009 04:51:18 AM 1154 Views
I keep replying. It's like a sickness. - 03/12/2009 05:15:28 AM 1172 Views
Your subject line reinforces my opinion. - 03/12/2009 05:31:50 AM 1093 Views
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. *NM* - 03/12/2009 07:21:05 AM 572 Views
LOL! - 04/12/2009 12:21:36 AM 1147 Views
See, you just proved my point. - 04/12/2009 12:39:59 AM 1193 Views
Hm. - 02/12/2009 06:58:56 AM 1787 Views
Re-read my exact point. - 02/12/2009 02:18:20 PM 1134 Views
No. Some kind of reading is indeed essential. - 02/12/2009 02:28:22 PM 1285 Views
Somehow I get the feeling that this post hasn't caused quite as much controversy - 02/12/2009 06:53:18 AM 1283 Views
As I see it... - 02/12/2009 11:38:07 AM 1181 Views
Yep. - 02/12/2009 02:18:22 PM 1327 Views
Re: Yep. - 02/12/2009 03:35:38 PM 1184 Views
Euripides was poorly received, initially. - 02/12/2009 03:57:58 PM 1105 Views
Re: Euripides was poorly received, initially. - 02/12/2009 04:00:35 PM 1124 Views
I know. - 02/12/2009 04:18:16 PM 1203 Views
Re: I know. - 02/12/2009 04:23:14 PM 1136 Views
That is why he's so good, in my opinion. - 02/12/2009 06:15:45 PM 1297 Views
All reading of fiction is a diversion by the very nature of the activity. - 02/12/2009 03:43:05 PM 1163 Views
Diversion from direct action, yes. Diversion from reality, no. - 02/12/2009 04:15:48 PM 1148 Views
I maintain that all acts of reading fiction are a diversion from reality/ the realistic - 02/12/2009 05:43:16 PM 1166 Views
It seems a regressive argument to me. - 03/12/2009 01:18:02 AM 1116 Views
You're playing a game. - 03/12/2009 03:40:14 PM 1203 Views
I like your response. *NM* - 03/12/2009 05:37:09 PM 544 Views
I fundamentally agree with much of what you're saying, but there is a distinction. - 03/12/2009 06:44:02 PM 1190 Views
Oh I concur on that distinction. - 04/12/2009 09:06:34 PM 1238 Views
Spec fic is perhaps at it's best in autocracies? - 02/12/2009 04:10:56 PM 1109 Views
Bulgakov - 02/12/2009 04:25:17 PM 1181 Views
I've only read the first chapter of M&M. - 02/12/2009 04:36:09 PM 1174 Views
Re: I've only read the first chapter of M&M. - 02/12/2009 04:40:16 PM 1099 Views
Not the greatest Tolkien scholar, me. - 02/12/2009 05:17:31 PM 1140 Views
Re: Not the greatest Tolkien scholar, me. - 02/12/2009 05:40:16 PM 1194 Views
I suppose. - 02/12/2009 06:26:30 PM 1180 Views
Re: I suppose. - 02/12/2009 07:25:26 PM 1187 Views
Well, I don't hold escapism in such low esteem *NM* - 02/12/2009 07:56:13 PM 574 Views
That is what I mean - 02/12/2009 08:36:02 PM 1107 Views
This was something I was exploring earlier. - 02/12/2009 04:34:41 PM 1220 Views
Funny thing about the hivemind antagonist. - 02/12/2009 05:13:30 PM 1175 Views
I didn't see the zombies reading speculative fiction - 02/12/2009 05:30:26 PM 1258 Views
Oh, they prefer Clive Cussler. - 02/12/2009 06:23:42 PM 1237 Views
i think it comes more down to quality than genre. - 02/12/2009 04:55:20 PM 1202 Views
I disagree with the ultimate conclusion but agree with many of your points. - 02/12/2009 05:43:04 PM 1148 Views
the illiad is a classic - 02/12/2009 06:35:24 PM 1186 Views
There's only one "L" in Iliad - 02/12/2009 08:18:38 PM 1150 Views
Is there a safe answer to that question? *NM* - 02/12/2009 10:33:21 PM 600 Views
Maybe not. *NM* - 03/12/2009 12:59:09 AM 565 Views
It took me a few minutes to agree - 02/12/2009 07:04:59 PM 1147 Views
Well, I'm glad if you got something out of the post! - 02/12/2009 09:13:26 PM 1171 Views
Re: Well, I'm glad if you got something out of the post! - 02/12/2009 09:20:49 PM 1141 Views
I don't know. I've only read about 30 pages so far. *NM* - 02/12/2009 10:05:54 PM 606 Views
Many people have mentioned that there's quite a bit of good sff lit out there and you seem to agree. - 02/12/2009 07:33:42 PM 1270 Views
Hmmm - 02/12/2009 08:40:53 PM 1164 Views
Re: Hmmm - 02/12/2009 10:48:02 PM 1185 Views
The website is called "Read and Find Out". It doesn't specify what we're supposed to read. - 02/12/2009 08:42:19 PM 1240 Views
Anti the idea ? I see no evidence for this. - 02/12/2009 09:50:37 PM 1200 Views
Heh - 02/12/2009 09:56:30 PM 1195 Views
What do you mean ? Almost all the repliers agree with Tom - 03/12/2009 11:01:08 AM 1158 Views
Re: What do you mean ? Almost all the repliers agree with Tom - 03/12/2009 11:10:35 AM 1191 Views
I see. You don't read announcements. - 03/12/2009 11:12:04 AM 1138 Views
No, but it does bill itself as science fiction/fantasy. - 02/12/2009 10:51:41 PM 1273 Views
Yes. - 03/12/2009 12:01:30 AM 1272 Views
I think Rebekah and Camilla put it well. - 02/12/2009 10:05:24 PM 1250 Views
I think they make good points, as I said above. - 02/12/2009 10:56:55 PM 1148 Views
I agree with in principle - 02/12/2009 11:22:19 PM 1122 Views
Certainly. People are free to skip any discussion. - 03/12/2009 01:01:40 AM 1252 Views
I have a few objections. - 03/12/2009 12:24:43 AM 1223 Views
where else should we talk about it? - 03/12/2009 12:37:26 AM 1167 Views
random thoughts stole my subject line - 03/12/2009 01:56:07 AM 1225 Views
I think I could agree with a "comfort food" analogy - 03/12/2009 02:12:01 AM 1231 Views
Re: I think I could agree with a "comfort food" analogy - 03/12/2009 02:38:17 AM 1276 Views
That's it - 03/12/2009 04:02:28 AM 1289 Views
Question: is it really science fiction without one of the following: - 03/12/2009 05:13:21 AM 1203 Views
Certainly - 03/12/2009 06:13:38 AM 1265 Views
technically speaking, fantasy is classed as a sub heading under science fiction. *NM* - 03/12/2009 02:51:12 PM 492 Views
According to whom? *NM* - 03/12/2009 03:55:45 PM 624 Views
Yeah. What she asked! *NM* - 03/12/2009 09:23:55 PM 601 Views
Yes, it is but actually... - 03/12/2009 09:31:44 PM 1197 Views
Eternal Sunshine doesn't have a mad scientist. - 03/12/2009 10:09:01 PM 1119 Views
Really? - 04/12/2009 07:01:42 PM 1160 Views
But Dan Brown rocks da house!!! *NM* - 03/12/2009 02:16:47 AM 599 Views
*pumps fist* Give it up for Dan Brown! *NM* - 03/12/2009 03:58:23 AM 587 Views
That's Dan "booyah" Brown!!! Booyah!!! *NM* - 04/12/2009 02:00:56 AM 602 Views
another thing wrong with your argument - 03/12/2009 03:30:19 PM 1179 Views
Absolutely not. And, as I said before, there's only one "L" in Iliad. - 03/12/2009 06:53:35 PM 995 Views
sorry about my atrocious spelling (including the one on pertinent) - 03/12/2009 07:14:59 PM 1301 Views
No problem. On the substantive points: - 03/12/2009 08:00:33 PM 1230 Views
more importantly, which I think it being lost in all this, - 03/12/2009 08:05:27 PM 1203 Views
I'm not reading the Iliad again, once was enough - 04/12/2009 12:19:07 PM 1153 Views
Congratulations on the replies count - 03/12/2009 09:30:41 PM 1305 Views
That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. - 03/12/2009 10:50:29 PM 1216 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. - 04/12/2009 07:44:56 PM 1237 Views
But the objective truth of a setting can be measured. - 04/12/2009 10:37:10 PM 1163 Views
But does it make any difference in the objective value of the book? - 06/12/2009 09:35:59 AM 1319 Views
YES. - 06/12/2009 03:34:17 PM 1109 Views
NO - 07/12/2009 08:40:33 PM 1210 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. - 04/12/2009 10:25:08 PM 1181 Views
Yes, it is worse with movies. Much worse, in fact. - 04/12/2009 10:33:18 PM 1217 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. - 06/12/2009 09:36:11 AM 1178 Views
Maybe we're different, but I don't care for FX - 06/12/2009 01:37:53 PM 1120 Views
This is not about the personal taste - 07/12/2009 08:50:34 PM 1218 Views
I've obviously missed the show here... - 04/12/2009 12:14:30 AM 1136 Views
I'm not sure that's right. This thing just keeps growing. - 04/12/2009 12:46:24 AM 1253 Views
What, your penis? - 06/12/2009 02:40:09 AM 1149 Views
Don't you know it! - 06/12/2009 03:28:16 PM 1052 Views
You talk the talk, that's for sure. - 07/12/2009 08:14:41 PM 1201 Views
Hate to break it to you... - 07/12/2009 09:54:24 PM 1256 Views
I thought you were gonna tell me... - 08/12/2009 03:07:54 PM 1309 Views
Metaphor versus literalism - 04/12/2009 05:42:03 PM 1225 Views
aha. but. - 07/12/2009 03:56:48 PM 1349 Views
Quoting Nietzsche is really hitting below the belt. - 07/12/2009 09:12:34 PM 1287 Views
It is good I was only paraphrasing, then - 08/12/2009 10:44:14 AM 1183 Views

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