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You are missing the point. Camilla Send a noteboard - 18/08/2012 11:11:33 PM
And even with societal differences notwithstanding, many women (including my wife) have communicated to me times in which they were torn on whether they wanted to have sex with someone or not. Even a torn "yes" is still a yes. There is a notable difference between "coerced consent" (and what is that, anyway? If you define it as some sort of extortion, then certainly that is terrible, but if you define it as seduction, then I don't know what we're arguing about here) and rape.

R Kelly said it best when he said "My mind's telling me no, but my body...my body's telling me yes." I didn't read Dany's initial scene with Drogo as rape at all, but as a situation where she wished her life had been different and yet within the circumstances DECIDED - by saying yes and moving his hand - that this was going to happen.

Rape is possibly the single most heinous crime in existence, since it is such a fundamental betrayal of the human right to Self. There's no discussion there. This, however, was not rape.


Nobody is arguing that she does not say yes at that point. The arguemnt is that she is 13 and therefore not in a position to give consent, and that it is therefore especially problematic that Martin emphasises the consent to such an extent.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
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A Game of Thrones by George R. R. Martin - 13/08/2012 10:48:37 PM 20573 Views
Fascinating. - 13/08/2012 11:40:22 PM 2818 Views
Re: Fascinating. - 14/08/2012 06:23:13 AM 2603 Views
Mainly the names. - 17/08/2012 12:07:21 AM 2530 Views
Regarding Daenerys as Henry Tudor - 14/08/2012 06:36:37 AM 2695 Views
Not really. - 14/08/2012 07:01:36 PM 2786 Views
Shocking - 15/08/2012 06:49:18 AM 2739 Views
On the Rape issue.... - 14/08/2012 01:19:35 AM 2649 Views
Re: On the Rape issue.... - 14/08/2012 02:02:42 AM 2497 Views
Firstly, Camilla is a she. Secondly, though I won't speak for her, regarding the rape in the novels, - 14/08/2012 02:23:19 AM 2675 Views
When does he use rape in an erotic manner? - 14/08/2012 05:48:59 AM 2498 Views
like all the time. - 14/09/2012 04:45:42 PM 2603 Views
Camilla is indeed a she. - 14/08/2012 06:18:58 AM 2549 Views
Re: Camilla is indeed a she. - 14/08/2012 04:37:17 PM 2562 Views
Re: Camilla is indeed a she. - 15/08/2012 06:39:31 AM 2766 Views
I for one never saw any of the rapes as erotic - 21/08/2012 05:04:11 PM 2815 Views
Re: On the Rape issue.... - 14/08/2012 06:17:55 AM 2489 Views
House Banners/Sigils - 21/08/2012 04:56:07 PM 2578 Views
Re: A Game of Thrones by George R. R. Martin - 14/08/2012 02:08:59 AM 2441 Views
Re: A Game of Thrones by George R. R. Martin - 14/08/2012 06:25:11 AM 2557 Views
I think you misread one part - 14/08/2012 04:51:34 PM 2704 Views
Currently kicking myself - 15/08/2012 06:43:36 AM 2808 Views
Re: Currently kicking myself - 16/08/2012 10:11:01 AM 2534 Views
what a great review. you echo my thoughts quite a bit... - 15/08/2012 01:21:38 AM 2459 Views
Wait...why would you waste time reading this fluff series when it's out on TV? - 16/08/2012 12:10:32 AM 2609 Views
Trollolololololololllll *NM* - 16/08/2012 01:02:22 AM 1271 Views
Se noteboard. *NM* - 16/08/2012 06:29:39 AM 1311 Views
Game, set, and match *NM* - 18/08/2012 03:50:38 PM 1283 Views
I think the TV series handles the problematic Dany/Drogo relationship better - 17/08/2012 12:20:16 AM 2597 Views
I think it messed it up by showing forced intercourse without the verbal consent Drogo DID obtain - 17/08/2012 12:07:14 PM 2640 Views
I still find it difficult to read it as anything other than a coerced consent - 17/08/2012 01:08:15 PM 2430 Views
A perpetrator-less crime then. - 17/08/2012 07:26:26 PM 2557 Views
Exactly! I'm on board, Cannoli. - 18/08/2012 07:45:56 PM 2426 Views
You are missing the point. - 18/08/2012 11:11:33 PM 2660 Views
Re: You are missing the point. - 19/08/2012 01:25:30 PM 2608 Views
Re: You are missing the point. - 19/08/2012 01:40:11 PM 2700 Views
So, you're saying that Juliet was raped by Romeo??? - 21/08/2012 05:24:56 PM 2618 Views
The later books do add more context and change some of this - 19/08/2012 12:08:49 AM 2486 Views
Re: The later books do add more context and change some of this - 19/08/2012 07:27:59 AM 2606 Views
That makes sense - 19/08/2012 02:35:36 PM 2223 Views
Jesus Christ another fucking thread about rape and fantasy. - 19/08/2012 01:47:43 AM 1542 Views
Perhaps if reading other people's views makes you so angry, you should avoid reading them? *NM* - 19/08/2012 02:37:03 PM 1334 Views
High blood pressure can kill, I hear. *NM* - 19/08/2012 03:33:14 PM 1408 Views
Nonsense. - 19/08/2012 03:33:39 PM 1293 Views
Fixed it for you. - 19/08/2012 08:22:18 PM 1401 Views
Shake the sand out of your vagina bitch. *NM* - 20/08/2012 06:35:32 AM 1293 Views
Gosh, this is really turning into something fun. - 20/08/2012 07:15:01 AM 1458 Views
Huh. I just came to the odd realization... - 20/08/2012 08:29:56 PM 1415 Views
Don't lock it! - 21/08/2012 05:11:34 AM 1359 Views
Yes, I'm aware, or I might have locked it already. - 21/08/2012 06:17:29 PM 1239 Views
I'd ask that you do lock it. - 21/08/2012 10:00:48 PM 1314 Views
Fair enough. *NM* - 22/08/2012 06:26:04 PM 1218 Views
I may join you - 20/08/2012 10:14:50 PM 1378 Views
COME AT ME BRO *NM* - 21/08/2012 05:09:34 AM 1254 Views
The interesting part is... - 28/08/2012 01:39:49 AM 2392 Views
That is the best written and most insightful review of that book I have read - 01/09/2012 05:38:00 PM 2466 Views
i'm rereading the series now and yeah there is a LOT of rape - 14/09/2012 04:38:27 PM 3086 Views

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