I feel like you missed a major setting issue. The books take place in a medieval time period where arranged marriages are consummated as soon as a girl "flowers" (12-13 years old in many cases).
Direct from Wikipedia (which we all know has to be true)
The definition of rape varies both in different parts of the world and at different times in history.[17] It is defined in many jurisdictions as sexual intercourse, or other forms of sexual penetration, of one person by another person without the consent of the victim.[17]
Yes, I've heard of that defence, but it does not really work. Or, rather, it misses the point. While the setting of the books may be "medieval" (though I note he is happy to change other sides to Medieval society, like the lack of dragons), Martin is very much writing from a present-day position (and within a present-day cultural context. His choice to present a 13-yearold girl's rape (yes) as an erotic seduction with an emphasis on consent (she is 13!) therefore really bothers me. The fact that he then goes on to describe violent rape of the same girl before she falls in love with her rapist is my second problem with the Daenerys storyline.
The fact that women were raped in the Medieval period does not dictate Martin's way of presenting that.
If I recall, Daeny does say yes and therefor that is not the definition of rape, although not how you and I would view consensual either. It is a completely different cultural standard than today, and you seem to want to judge these characters with today's standards, instead of losing yourself in their world.
As I said, Martin writes within today's cultural standards. And the fact that he emphasises the seduction and consent in that scene really makes it worse as far as I am concerned.
You disregard the banners and pageantry, much like I did the first time through GoT, because like you I could never remember the 20 different knights names in the tourney or their banners. But in that long listing paragraph is the introduction to so many of our sub-plots for the next four novels, which Martin does a great job of interweaving with the Starks and Lannisters (two of which you will love wholeheartedly before book 5 and one you will continue to loathe).
I hope so. And I do approve of introducing early on what is to become important later. I hope this means I won't have to read any more about those banners, though.
I am also glad to hear he problematisest he Starks = good, Lannisters = bad. While it was not quite clear cut in the first book, it could do with some more shading in.
The recent history of Westeros is not slapped across your face most of the time and in many cases, you must decipher from the different perspectives what is reality and propaganda. The great mystery although is not what did happen a generation ago, but what could have happened and how close these wars, weddings, rivalries, and ultimately every characters pending doom could have been avoided because of one simple fart. After a couple thousand pages you see how the factions used to work together and how they fit together today. Those banners help identify families and this helps illuminate the complex weave Martin has created for us.
That does sound interesting.
I agree that his series stalls in book 4 and 5, but if you give book 2 and 3 a chance, you will find that the plot thickens and events spin wildly out of control for everyone. The meek inherit the thrones, and the strong are cast down by magic, treachery, and pure stupidity at times. The evil and good alike are slain by the thousands, and the war of the five kings erodes everyone into a husk of their beginning selves as we met them in GoT. All while the true enemy gains strength and WINTER IS COMING!
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
structured procrastinator
A Game of Thrones by George R. R. Martin
13/08/2012 10:48:37 PM
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Fascinating.
13/08/2012 11:40:22 PM
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On the Rape issue....
14/08/2012 01:19:35 AM
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Re: On the Rape issue....
14/08/2012 02:02:42 AM
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Firstly, Camilla is a she. Secondly, though I won't speak for her, regarding the rape in the novels,
14/08/2012 02:23:19 AM
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Camilla is indeed a she.
14/08/2012 06:18:58 AM
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Re: On the Rape issue....
14/08/2012 06:17:55 AM
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How is that a violent rape? At worst it would be statutory rape.
17/08/2012 11:53:44 AM
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The wedding night is statutory. I would describe the later rapes as fairly violent.
17/08/2012 12:13:26 PM
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That was her only sex scene, until she induces him to have outdoor sex to get pregnant
17/08/2012 07:20:09 PM
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It is not necessary to provide a scene
17/08/2012 10:49:20 PM
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I believe that what is happening here is called confirmation bias *NM*
21/08/2012 06:23:38 PM
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I think you misread one part
14/08/2012 04:51:34 PM
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I think that the Rhaegar and Lyanna stuff does look like rape in the first book
14/08/2012 08:10:27 PM
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"Looks like" is this case meaning "explicitly stated to be that way"?
17/08/2012 11:56:48 AM
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what a great review. you echo my thoughts quite a bit...
15/08/2012 01:21:38 AM
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Re: what a great review. you echo my thoughts quite a bit...
15/08/2012 07:39:24 AM
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philippa gregory co-authored a book "the women of the cousins' war" - it was very interesting
16/08/2012 07:54:50 PM
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Wait...why would you waste time reading this fluff series when it's out on TV?
16/08/2012 12:10:32 AM
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I always liked the banners and pageantry - it creates an interesting contrast...
16/08/2012 11:52:40 PM
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Re: I always liked the banners and pageantry - it creates an interesting contrast...
17/08/2012 06:33:24 AM
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I think the TV series handles the problematic Dany/Drogo relationship better
17/08/2012 12:20:16 AM
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Re: I think the TV series handles the problematic Dany/Drogo relationship better
17/08/2012 06:40:12 AM
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I think it messed it up by showing forced intercourse without the verbal consent Drogo DID obtain
17/08/2012 12:07:14 PM
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I still find it difficult to read it as anything other than a coerced consent
17/08/2012 01:08:15 PM
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A perpetrator-less crime then.
17/08/2012 07:26:26 PM
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Exactly! I'm on board, Cannoli.
18/08/2012 07:45:56 PM
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You are missing the point.
18/08/2012 11:11:33 PM
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The later books do add more context and change some of this
19/08/2012 12:08:49 AM
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Jesus Christ another fucking thread about rape and fantasy.
19/08/2012 01:47:43 AM
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Perhaps if reading other people's views makes you so angry, you should avoid reading them? *NM*
19/08/2012 02:37:03 PM
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Nonsense.
19/08/2012 03:33:39 PM
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Fixed it for you.
19/08/2012 08:22:18 PM
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Oh, but that takes us back to snoop being right, and I'm sorry, but I just cannot abide that.
19/08/2012 10:56:10 PM
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Shake the sand out of your vagina bitch. *NM*
20/08/2012 06:35:32 AM
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Gosh, this is really turning into something fun.
20/08/2012 07:15:01 AM
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Here I was about to make a "whee misogyny" post. I never get to have fun. *NM*
20/08/2012 09:09:04 AM
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Huh. I just came to the odd realization...
20/08/2012 08:29:56 PM
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Don't lock it!
21/08/2012 05:11:34 AM
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Yes, I'm aware, or I might have locked it already.
21/08/2012 06:17:29 PM
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That is the best written and most insightful review of that book I have read
01/09/2012 05:38:00 PM
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I forgot that I was supposed to read all threads to watch out for Bad Behaviour.
01/09/2012 11:09:52 PM
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