... I would offer Neal Stephenson as an example of a fantasy/sci-fi writer who broadens your horizons. However, he's not writing worlds with, as you put it, dragons and elves and fairies. His fantastic elements tend to be a fair bit lighter than that, which I think might be something you talked about earlier. I haven't been reading every post. For the record I think that you are right that people could (and perhaps should) be broadening their horizons more, but I also think that many (not all) of the books you and Larry promote as mind-broadening are actually dull as dirt. That's probably just a matter of personal taste.
But back to Neal Stephenson. You'll typically find his books in the fantasy and sci-fi sections because of the light fantastic elements within them, but as he tells stories he teaches about topics such as history, economics, cryptography, mathematics, and dozens of smaller topics that catch his interest. His books are full of well-written asides packed with factual information. You can learn quite a bit from them if you want to.
For the sake of continuing argument, there are several fantasy authors/books that can teach you a little and give you a greater interest in particular topics. Neil Gaiman's books are full of real-world mythology, for example, and his Sandman books are also sprinkled with factual history lessons.
Fantasy and sci-fi writers can also be effective social commentators, which is another way they can broaden the mind. I suspect that science fiction has more of this, but I don't read a lot of it so I can't say for certain how good it is. Matthew Stover's Acts of Caine books are a blend of fantasy and science fiction that have at their core a social commentary on class systems and the culture of entertainment. China Mieville's fantasy novels also contain quite a bit of relevant social commentary.
However (again, didn't read all the other posts) I suspect you're talking more about standard, run-of-the-mill fantasy, where of course you're correct that there is not a lot of practical relevance to the real world. That doesn't mean that there can't be emotional relevance, because every fantasy world, no matter how run-of-the-mill, also contains things such as personal interaction, relationships, basic social structures, etc., that do indeed happen in our world as well, and can be of use to people. It's not mind-broadening in the typical sense, but it's not worthless either. Well, it's not worthless in most books. Some of them are just so bad that even this stuff is worthless.
But I would also argue that the split in the speculative fiction genre between worthwhile/intellectually stimulating books and fluff books also exists in most other genres. The books written decades or centuries ago that became classics did so because they were of the first category, but there were thousands of books written, published, purchased, and enjoyed by people that were fluff. It's not a problem that's endemic to fantasy. There's fluff everywhere. There's fluff down every aisle of every bookstore.
If there's a case to be made against fantasy/sci-fi, I think it's safer to say that it has a higher fluff to non-fluff ratio partially because it appeals to young peoplea as an entry into literature and partially because it's a younger genre in general. The longer it percolates in society, slowly more people with intellectual ideas will write stories in it, and the more non-fluff we will get. But there will always be fluff, just as there will always be a Dean Koontz and a Danielle Steele in the "real world" novels.
But back to Neal Stephenson. You'll typically find his books in the fantasy and sci-fi sections because of the light fantastic elements within them, but as he tells stories he teaches about topics such as history, economics, cryptography, mathematics, and dozens of smaller topics that catch his interest. His books are full of well-written asides packed with factual information. You can learn quite a bit from them if you want to.
For the sake of continuing argument, there are several fantasy authors/books that can teach you a little and give you a greater interest in particular topics. Neil Gaiman's books are full of real-world mythology, for example, and his Sandman books are also sprinkled with factual history lessons.
Fantasy and sci-fi writers can also be effective social commentators, which is another way they can broaden the mind. I suspect that science fiction has more of this, but I don't read a lot of it so I can't say for certain how good it is. Matthew Stover's Acts of Caine books are a blend of fantasy and science fiction that have at their core a social commentary on class systems and the culture of entertainment. China Mieville's fantasy novels also contain quite a bit of relevant social commentary.
However (again, didn't read all the other posts) I suspect you're talking more about standard, run-of-the-mill fantasy, where of course you're correct that there is not a lot of practical relevance to the real world. That doesn't mean that there can't be emotional relevance, because every fantasy world, no matter how run-of-the-mill, also contains things such as personal interaction, relationships, basic social structures, etc., that do indeed happen in our world as well, and can be of use to people. It's not mind-broadening in the typical sense, but it's not worthless either. Well, it's not worthless in most books. Some of them are just so bad that even this stuff is worthless.
But I would also argue that the split in the speculative fiction genre between worthwhile/intellectually stimulating books and fluff books also exists in most other genres. The books written decades or centuries ago that became classics did so because they were of the first category, but there were thousands of books written, published, purchased, and enjoyed by people that were fluff. It's not a problem that's endemic to fantasy. There's fluff everywhere. There's fluff down every aisle of every bookstore.
If there's a case to be made against fantasy/sci-fi, I think it's safer to say that it has a higher fluff to non-fluff ratio partially because it appeals to young peoplea as an entry into literature and partially because it's a younger genre in general. The longer it percolates in society, slowly more people with intellectual ideas will write stories in it, and the more non-fluff we will get. But there will always be fluff, just as there will always be a Dean Koontz and a Danielle Steele in the "real world" novels.
Warder to starry_nite
Chapterfish — Nate's Writing Blog
http://chapterfish.wordpress.com
Chapterfish — Nate's Writing Blog
http://chapterfish.wordpress.com
Aren't the Tolkien comparisons getting a little...old?
09/12/2011 09:51:39 PM
- 2850 Views
The comparison bothers me, but not because Tolkien isn't relevant.
09/12/2011 10:05:22 PM
- 1718 Views
Only when shit works are being compared to him
09/12/2011 10:22:26 PM
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Larry,
10/12/2011 01:13:18 AM
- 1627 Views
Snide dismissal that will be passed off as for his own entertainment.
10/12/2011 04:55:43 AM
- 1539 Views
Well-deserved condescension.
11/12/2011 03:54:27 AM
- 1658 Views
You're sure about that?
11/12/2011 04:20:26 AM
- 1885 Views
Re: You're sure about that?
11/12/2011 05:25:08 AM
- 1610 Views
Re: You're sure about that?
11/12/2011 06:03:02 AM
- 1476 Views
i think you shouldn't judge a whole world's school programs on your school
11/12/2011 06:42:30 AM
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If you're arguing that children should be able to read genre fiction, fine.
11/12/2011 08:52:27 PM
- 1407 Views
Well, I suppose it depends on the type of genre being read
11/12/2011 09:36:16 PM
- 1642 Views
How often do you hear the challenging writers mentioned at this site?
12/12/2011 02:03:05 PM
- 1379 Views
Only when you, me, and a couple others write reviews
12/12/2011 04:21:14 PM
- 1782 Views
Oh, it was the same as it always is
12/12/2011 05:23:56 PM
- 1492 Views
Much of the actual "Classics", that is, Greek and Latin originals, kids would eat up.
12/12/2011 03:13:03 AM
- 1391 Views
You're upfront and honest about it; he isn't. The difference matters to me. *NM*
11/12/2011 05:18:42 AM
- 808 Views
this is a bit off topic, but out of curiousity...
11/12/2011 06:28:35 AM
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I've discussed this dozens of times at this site. Perhaps you've missed all of the posts.
11/12/2011 08:57:44 PM
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mk I'll go look. I probably did miss it (or at least don't remember it!)
11/12/2011 09:08:02 PM
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I have a successful career that was inspired by the video games I played as a child. *NM*
11/12/2011 05:52:21 PM
- 838 Views
Now let's get all the people who just pissed their lives away with video games and see the %.
11/12/2011 08:58:42 PM
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The majority of players neither waste their lives nor make a career out of it.
11/12/2011 11:29:29 PM
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Yeah, sorry, I don't think you could say that with a straight face in real life. *NM*
12/12/2011 04:13:52 AM
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Then you have a closed mind on the subject. Ironic, considering your stance on edification. *NM*
12/12/2011 05:47:50 AM
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No, just with respect to you. *NM*
12/12/2011 02:00:15 PM
- 760 Views
Tom, you pulled the "Say that to my face!" line. You lost the right to talk about respect. *NM*
12/12/2011 03:20:15 PM
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Once again, I really don't care what you think. *NM*
12/12/2011 03:37:40 PM
- 765 Views
Did I imply that you did? My apologies. I'd hate to insinuate that you'd stoop that low. *NM*
12/12/2011 04:13:25 PM
- 735 Views
As well read as you seem to be, you think you'd be smart enough...
11/12/2011 06:20:06 PM
- 1485 Views
I thought I have made it clear that I don't care if people don't like me here.
11/12/2011 08:44:58 PM
- 1406 Views
Re: I thought I have made it clear that I don't care if people don't like me here.
12/12/2011 04:04:37 PM
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That statement has just confused me.
12/12/2011 04:06:53 PM
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Re: That statement has just confused me.
12/12/2011 04:14:27 PM
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I never learned Hittite. I had a book on pre-order for a long time but never ended up getting it.
12/12/2011 05:41:03 PM
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What you have made clear, I think, is the fact that you deal in generalizations and stereotypes.
12/12/2011 10:12:12 PM
- 1528 Views
There's an unintentional irony in what you say, alas
13/12/2011 12:44:26 AM
- 1445 Views
Tom, Dick, or Larry...you may use your true first name, but you're still an anonymous entity to most
13/12/2011 04:49:35 AM
- 1648 Views
With such comeback skills, you must have ruled the playgrounds as a kid, no?
13/12/2011 05:21:42 AM
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There are no special snowflakes, are there?
11/12/2011 09:39:21 PM
- 1404 Views
There are many way of widening one's horizons and broadening one's mind.
11/12/2011 10:08:24 PM
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What I don't like-
12/12/2011 04:28:55 AM
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Why don't you name something, then?
12/12/2011 04:40:29 AM
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Sure.
13/12/2011 07:30:56 AM
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Mentioning Ender's Game pretty much shot your argument in the foot.
13/12/2011 02:02:59 PM
- 1413 Views
You dismiss the entire video game medium because many games lack value.
13/12/2011 03:59:11 PM
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You're like the McDonald's paid advocate trying to say Big Macs are actually healthy.
13/12/2011 05:46:37 PM
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For the sake of argument ...
13/12/2011 04:09:51 PM
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I'll leave it up to others to define as they wish against their self-conceptions of me
10/12/2011 10:52:54 AM
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that's alright. I really have no desire to stroke your twit-ego. *NM*
10/12/2011 04:36:56 PM
- 617 Views
Considering the firestorm I appear to have touched off, that may be best.
12/12/2011 12:57:49 PM
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I know, John
12/12/2011 04:27:04 PM
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Re: I know, John
12/12/2011 05:06:26 PM
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As I've said in the past, I'd be scared if anyone agreed with me anywhere approaching 100%
12/12/2011 06:33:52 PM
- 1392 Views
Re: As I've said in the past, I'd be scared if anyone agreed with me anywhere approaching 100%
12/12/2011 07:13:37 PM
- 1468 Views
Blurbs are not generally very original in their comparisons - would kind of defeat their purpose.
09/12/2011 10:42:17 PM
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Maybe if so much of the genre weren't crap derivative works it wouldn't be so common. *NM*
11/12/2011 03:44:24 AM
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To be fair, a lot of it isn't.
11/12/2011 04:06:07 AM
- 1443 Views
I suspect that if it really isn't derivative it's not being compared to Tolkien in the first place.
11/12/2011 04:18:57 AM
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That's true.
11/12/2011 11:08:01 AM
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But see, that's where things start to get referred back to Tolkien.
12/12/2011 04:30:12 AM
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The Tolkien fanaticism gets old. And yes, for me it is unreadable.
11/12/2011 11:37:53 PM
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No, because the movies are very contemporary and relevant, thus he will remain so for quite a while.
12/12/2011 03:14:53 AM
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Disagree all you want, but LotR is still the touchstone when it comes to works of fantasy.
12/12/2011 03:48:20 AM
- 1405 Views