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Plato is exciting, brutal and scandalous? Legolas Send a noteboard - 12/12/2011 09:59:13 PM
I'm thinking mostly of the Illiad, the Odyssey, and most of the Greek tragedies. But even Plato, Lysias, and Suetonius are interesting, and for all the right reasons. They're exciting, brutal, and scandalous.

But judging by what I've read of the classics, yes, some of them are most definitely interesting to today's youths. Jean Anouilh wrote a great adaptation of Sophocles' Antigone - but even the original doesn't take all that much effort to get into even for a teenager, just a little bit of goodwill. Not all of the other plays are as accessible, but some are. The mythology certainly is.

And then there's Martial and Catullus, who between them I think will continue to blow every generation of teenagers' minds, because they never realized how a civilization so ancient and different could yet be so similar in its vulgarities and its romance. Nihil novi sub sole, and all that.
Part of the problem I've found first hand is the translation. It's too florid, too posh and British, to really hit people. I think Attic Greek could lend itself very well to an Americanized translation with American colloquialism, while losing very little. Also, verse can be difficult, and that is one major hurdle which they really could teach. I'd be ok with a prose rendition of the Illiad, but fuck it, who knows.

Certainly makes sense to me.
The other problem, which I think is the more significant one, is that schools and parents alike would refuse to actually teach material this interesting. That's the crux of the problem. There's no shortage of literature that is exciting and well-written, but the way it is taught, due to layers and layers of puritanism and PC Bullshit, strip it of being interesting. The result is Huckleberry Finn without "nigger". There's no fucking way anyone could seriously teach The Bacchae, for instance.

Yeah, I don't think there's any American high school that would dare to read "Pedicabo vos et irrumabo". My HS teacher of Greek and Latin didn't shy away from that stuff, read some of Carlos Drummond de Andrade's erotic poetry to us (and a classic documentary about the explicit sexual fantasies of Brazilian octogenarians - talk about blowing students' minds), but that's hardly the norm here, and I dare say America is still more puritan.

Of course, there's plenty of literature that could pass the censor's judging eye and still be interesting to teenagers.
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Aren't the Tolkien comparisons getting a little...old? Dark Knight - 09/12/2011 09:51:39 PM 3031 Views
The comparison bothers me, but not because Tolkien isn't relevant. lord-of-shadow - 09/12/2011 10:05:22 PM 1882 Views
I agree with this. Nate - 09/12/2011 10:21:34 PM 1924 Views
Re: I agree with this. DomA - 10/12/2011 07:09:33 PM 1851 Views
Exactly *NM* ironclad - 12/12/2011 12:09:19 PM 996 Views
Only when shit works are being compared to him Larry - 09/12/2011 10:22:26 PM 1777 Views
Larry, Macharius - 10/12/2011 01:13:18 AM 1795 Views
Snide dismissal that will be passed off as for his own entertainment. Ghavrel - 10/12/2011 04:55:43 AM 1717 Views
We get a lot of that around here. *NM* lord-of-shadow - 10/12/2011 05:18:01 AM 759 Views
makes me wonder... LadyLorraine - 10/12/2011 04:37:33 PM 1702 Views
Re: makes me wonder... James - 11/12/2011 03:03:15 AM 1654 Views
Well-deserved condescension. Tom - 11/12/2011 03:54:27 AM 1866 Views
You're sure about that? A Deathwatch Guard - 11/12/2011 04:20:26 AM 2059 Views
Re: You're sure about that? James - 11/12/2011 05:25:08 AM 1778 Views
Re: You're sure about that? A Deathwatch Guard - 11/12/2011 06:03:02 AM 1653 Views
i think you shouldn't judge a whole world's school programs on your school LadyLorraine - 11/12/2011 06:42:30 AM 1686 Views
Yeah, I'm limited in my knowledge, lol A Deathwatch Guard - 11/12/2011 08:03:26 AM 1714 Views
My school was...not great. James - 11/12/2011 04:02:36 PM 1742 Views
I'm 24. James - 11/12/2011 03:49:06 PM 1654 Views
If you're arguing that children should be able to read genre fiction, fine. Tom - 11/12/2011 08:52:27 PM 1582 Views
Well, I suppose it depends on the type of genre being read Larry - 11/12/2011 09:36:16 PM 1816 Views
How often do you hear the challenging writers mentioned at this site? Tom - 12/12/2011 02:03:05 PM 1548 Views
Only when you, me, and a couple others write reviews Larry - 12/12/2011 04:21:14 PM 1962 Views
Oh, it was the same as it always is Tom - 12/12/2011 05:23:56 PM 1635 Views
True Larry - 12/12/2011 06:29:10 PM 1754 Views
One note nossy - 13/12/2011 12:17:48 AM 1762 Views
Perhaps Larry - 13/12/2011 12:49:34 AM 1686 Views
*Sighs* Such is the plight of those shining few intelects... Narg - 23/12/2011 01:15:47 AM 1730 Views
Much of the actual "Classics", that is, Greek and Latin originals, kids would eat up. Dan - 12/12/2011 03:13:03 AM 1563 Views
Try teaching Apuleius in schools... *NM* Tom - 12/12/2011 04:12:49 AM 876 Views
Plato is exciting, brutal and scandalous? Legolas - 12/12/2011 09:59:13 PM 1633 Views
You're upfront and honest about it; he isn't. The difference matters to me. *NM* Ghavrel - 11/12/2011 05:18:42 AM 923 Views
Uhh...uh... Larry - 11/12/2011 05:34:23 AM 1666 Views
this is a bit off topic, but out of curiousity... LadyLorraine - 11/12/2011 06:28:35 AM 1769 Views
I've discussed this dozens of times at this site. Perhaps you've missed all of the posts. Tom - 11/12/2011 08:57:44 PM 1719 Views
mk I'll go look. I probably did miss it (or at least don't remember it!) LadyLorraine - 11/12/2011 09:08:02 PM 1674 Views
I have a successful career that was inspired by the video games I played as a child. *NM* lord-of-shadow - 11/12/2011 05:52:21 PM 950 Views
Now let's get all the people who just pissed their lives away with video games and see the %. Tom - 11/12/2011 08:58:42 PM 1825 Views
The majority of players neither waste their lives nor make a career out of it. lord-of-shadow - 11/12/2011 11:29:29 PM 1708 Views
Yeah, sorry, I don't think you could say that with a straight face in real life. *NM* Tom - 12/12/2011 04:13:52 AM 891 Views
Then you have a closed mind on the subject. Ironic, considering your stance on edification. *NM* lord-of-shadow - 12/12/2011 05:47:50 AM 831 Views
No, just with respect to you. *NM* Tom - 12/12/2011 02:00:15 PM 883 Views
Tom, you pulled the "Say that to my face!" line. You lost the right to talk about respect. *NM* lord-of-shadow - 12/12/2011 03:20:15 PM 925 Views
Once again, I really don't care what you think. *NM* Tom - 12/12/2011 03:37:40 PM 879 Views
Did I imply that you did? My apologies. I'd hate to insinuate that you'd stoop that low. *NM* lord-of-shadow - 12/12/2011 04:13:25 PM 846 Views
As well read as you seem to be, you think you'd be smart enough... MonCul - 11/12/2011 06:20:06 PM 1653 Views
I thought I have made it clear that I don't care if people don't like me here. Tom - 11/12/2011 08:44:58 PM 1578 Views
Re: I thought I have made it clear that I don't care if people don't like me here. Macharius - 12/12/2011 04:04:37 PM 1640 Views
That statement has just confused me. Tom - 12/12/2011 04:06:53 PM 1590 Views
Re: That statement has just confused me. Macharius - 12/12/2011 04:14:27 PM 1596 Views
I never learned Hittite. I had a book on pre-order for a long time but never ended up getting it. Tom - 12/12/2011 05:41:03 PM 1548 Views
What you have made clear, I think, is the fact that you deal in generalizations and stereotypes. MonCul - 12/12/2011 10:12:12 PM 1709 Views
There's an unintentional irony in what you say, alas Larry - 13/12/2011 12:44:26 AM 1628 Views
Tom, Dick, or Larry...you may use your true first name, but you're still an anonymous entity to most MonCul - 13/12/2011 04:49:35 AM 1831 Views
With such comeback skills, you must have ruled the playgrounds as a kid, no? Larry - 13/12/2011 05:21:42 AM 1834 Views
I thought it was a pretty good comeback. MonCul - 13/12/2011 12:37:15 PM 1790 Views
Think again, Skippy Larry - 13/12/2011 01:34:41 PM 1638 Views
There are no special snowflakes, are there? Larry - 11/12/2011 09:39:21 PM 1582 Views
There are many way of widening one's horizons and broadening one's mind. Legolas - 11/12/2011 10:08:24 PM 1333 Views
I said as much in my comment Larry - 11/12/2011 10:20:03 PM 1602 Views
What I don't like- rebelaessedai - 12/12/2011 04:28:55 AM 1690 Views
Why don't you name something, then? Tom - 12/12/2011 04:40:29 AM 1643 Views
Sure. rebelaessedai - 13/12/2011 07:30:56 AM 1478 Views
Mentioning Ender's Game pretty much shot your argument in the foot. Tom - 13/12/2011 02:02:59 PM 1580 Views
You dismiss the entire video game medium because many games lack value. lord-of-shadow - 13/12/2011 03:59:11 PM 1728 Views
You're like the McDonald's paid advocate trying to say Big Macs are actually healthy. Tom - 13/12/2011 05:46:37 PM 1541 Views
McDonalds food is inherently unhealthy. lord-of-shadow - 13/12/2011 06:02:18 PM 1692 Views
For the sake of argument ... Nate - 13/12/2011 04:09:51 PM 1587 Views
Stephenson is not literature, that's for damn sure. Tom - 13/12/2011 05:49:24 PM 1535 Views
Thank you, The Voice of Lews Therin. *NM* Vivien - 16/12/2011 05:14:42 AM 939 Views
I'll leave it up to others to define as they wish against their self-conceptions of me Larry - 10/12/2011 10:52:54 AM 1698 Views
that's alright. I really have no desire to stroke your twit-ego. *NM* LadyLorraine - 10/12/2011 04:36:56 PM 724 Views
Considering the firestorm I appear to have touched off, that may be best. Macharius - 12/12/2011 12:57:49 PM 1672 Views
I know, John Larry - 12/12/2011 04:27:04 PM 1573 Views
Re: I know, John Macharius - 12/12/2011 05:06:26 PM 1642 Views
As I've said in the past, I'd be scared if anyone agreed with me anywhere approaching 100% Larry - 12/12/2011 06:33:52 PM 1556 Views
Re: As I've said in the past, I'd be scared if anyone agreed with me anywhere approaching 100% Macharius - 12/12/2011 07:13:37 PM 1634 Views
Same guy Larry - 12/12/2011 07:26:13 PM 1699 Views
Ha! Excellent point. *NM* Tom - 11/12/2011 03:44:52 AM 866 Views
Blurbs are not generally very original in their comparisons - would kind of defeat their purpose. Legolas - 09/12/2011 10:42:17 PM 1666 Views
I have to agree. ? - 09/12/2011 10:54:06 PM 1687 Views
They're there for marketing A Deathwatch Guard - 10/12/2011 12:20:17 AM 1676 Views
Most of those comparisons are like that anyway DomA - 10/12/2011 05:32:45 PM 1809 Views
Maybe if so much of the genre weren't crap derivative works it wouldn't be so common. *NM* Tom - 11/12/2011 03:44:24 AM 855 Views
To be fair, a lot of it isn't. rebelaessedai - 11/12/2011 04:06:07 AM 1609 Views
I suspect that if it really isn't derivative it's not being compared to Tolkien in the first place. Tom - 11/12/2011 04:18:57 AM 1559 Views
That's true. rebelaessedai - 11/12/2011 11:08:01 AM 1540 Views
But see, that's where things start to get referred back to Tolkien. Tom - 12/12/2011 04:30:12 AM 1685 Views
Maybe they mean something else by using his name. Cannoli - 11/12/2011 03:50:15 AM 1645 Views
When they don't work, yes. nossy - 11/12/2011 03:18:44 PM 1637 Views
The Tolkien fanaticism gets old. And yes, for me it is unreadable. everynametaken - 11/12/2011 11:37:53 PM 1618 Views
No, because the movies are very contemporary and relevant, thus he will remain so for quite a while. Dan - 12/12/2011 03:14:53 AM 1665 Views
Disagree all you want, but LotR is still the touchstone when it comes to works of fantasy. Vodalus - 12/12/2011 03:48:20 AM 1583 Views
Yes *NM* Hieshyn - 22/12/2011 07:08:38 PM 988 Views
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