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Re: You're sure about that? A Deathwatch Guard Send a noteboard - 11/12/2011 06:03:02 AM
Strange. Even though I had distractions such as television and video games, I was a voracious reader as a child. Neither of my parents or any of my relatives, really, were readers and did little to encourage me to do so. Am I a miracle child, then? There is little difference in distractions between now and then. The video games look better, the television shows are more inane, and the internet has gotten a lot faster. Expecting our youth to read books, even the classics, should not be a matter of attempting the impossible.


Yep, that makes you an outlier. Congratulations, it's good that you are, but it doesn't change the fact that the average, or even above average, child in America does not behave in such way.

Or would have, with aid from their teachers and parents. Do schools no longer encourage children to read? I remember several programs throughout my years in elementary school that were meant to reward reading and more than a few occasions of having to choose a book from the library to write a report on. I assume these things still exist, but I could be wrong. (I also remember book fairs and mandatory time spent in the library each week.) That said, I won't argue against genre in favor of classics or classics in favor of genre. Both will enhance a reader's vocabulary (especially fantasy, which sometimes has a habit of relying on a thesaurus) and relay ideas.


The last reading promotion I experienced was in... elementary school. It was called SSR, Sustained Silent Reading, and it was a half hour (or so) that we spent each day reading whatever book we brought to class with us. We were also supposed to read another 20 or 30 minutes at home, but people who didn't were not penalized in any way. By middle school, that was all gone. We had a book report a year or so, and that was about it.

So no, schools really don't encourage reading all that much. Most reading is done from textbooks that have excerpts of larger stories in them, but it's hard to truly gain an interest for reading from a chapter or passage of a larger works. It makes the characters transient, and unrelated to the reader. Not to mention that the classes go extremely slowly, so less than 10 excerpts are usually read in a year, from a book that probably contains 50 or more.

Holy shit, really? What the hell kind of schools are people running these days? When I was in middle school, I was not only encouraged to read genre, but also write genre. But you know, while they encouraged I continue reading what I enjoyed, they also made an effort to recommend the classics. They also expected me to read and attempt to understand the books, classic or not, that they assigned in class.


I don't normally pry... But when did you go to school? Because I'm 20, so I was in middle school not all that long ago... and I can tell you with absolute certainty, school is not like that now. Other than those anthology textbooks I mentioned above, very, very little reading is done in school. In high school, we read To Kill a Mockingbird, Macbeth, a bit of Hamlet and a bit of Romeo and Juliet, and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. And half of those were in the English AP class I took during the last year, so this in no way similar to what the average student would have read, which would be even less. And that's in high school. In middle school aside from those few book reports, there were no actual books that we read at all!

Have schools really changed so much that children are no longer encouraged to read? Are children above the elementary school level discouraged from partaking in genre by condescending teachers and librarians, the same people who took my love of reading, even if only genre, and saw it as something to nourish and develop? Maybe. I find it hard to believe, but you never know these days.


No doubt there are some good teachers and good librarians, and good parents that are properly nurturing to their children's budding love for reading... But they are in the minority. It's a sad fact, but it is fact. The problem was never teachers discouraging reading, but them simply... not caring one way or the other. Teachers in my experience have never been people to come to with problems or for conversations... They just taught, and gave homework, and there the interaction with them ended. The only teachers that I've ever talked to as people were the teachers of AP classes in 11th and 12th grade, but that was more like talking to a wiser peer than to a teacher.

And I'm by no means opposed to reading classics, or think that genre fiction is superior to classics. I think that people should be steered toward them, because they are important and valuable. But I also think that genre fiction has an important role to play in building a person's love for reading, and that there is nothing shameful or inherently bad about it.
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Aren't the Tolkien comparisons getting a little...old? - 09/12/2011 09:51:39 PM 2864 Views
The comparison bothers me, but not because Tolkien isn't relevant. - 09/12/2011 10:05:22 PM 1729 Views
I agree with this. - 09/12/2011 10:21:34 PM 1760 Views
Re: I agree with this. - 10/12/2011 07:09:33 PM 1694 Views
Exactly *NM* - 12/12/2011 12:09:19 PM 862 Views
Only when shit works are being compared to him - 09/12/2011 10:22:26 PM 1622 Views
Larry, - 10/12/2011 01:13:18 AM 1637 Views
Snide dismissal that will be passed off as for his own entertainment. - 10/12/2011 04:55:43 AM 1551 Views
We get a lot of that around here. *NM* - 10/12/2011 05:18:01 AM 645 Views
makes me wonder... - 10/12/2011 04:37:33 PM 1537 Views
Re: makes me wonder... - 11/12/2011 03:03:15 AM 1501 Views
Well-deserved condescension. - 11/12/2011 03:54:27 AM 1672 Views
You're sure about that? - 11/12/2011 04:20:26 AM 1894 Views
Re: You're sure about that? - 11/12/2011 05:25:08 AM 1622 Views
Re: You're sure about that? - 11/12/2011 06:03:02 AM 1485 Views
i think you shouldn't judge a whole world's school programs on your school - 11/12/2011 06:42:30 AM 1538 Views
Yeah, I'm limited in my knowledge, lol - 11/12/2011 08:03:26 AM 1550 Views
My school was...not great. - 11/12/2011 04:02:36 PM 1575 Views
I'm 24. - 11/12/2011 03:49:06 PM 1491 Views
If you're arguing that children should be able to read genre fiction, fine. - 11/12/2011 08:52:27 PM 1420 Views
Well, I suppose it depends on the type of genre being read - 11/12/2011 09:36:16 PM 1651 Views
How often do you hear the challenging writers mentioned at this site? - 12/12/2011 02:03:05 PM 1391 Views
Only when you, me, and a couple others write reviews - 12/12/2011 04:21:14 PM 1795 Views
Oh, it was the same as it always is - 12/12/2011 05:23:56 PM 1503 Views
True - 12/12/2011 06:29:10 PM 1591 Views
One note - 13/12/2011 12:17:48 AM 1596 Views
Perhaps - 13/12/2011 12:49:34 AM 1532 Views
*Sighs* Such is the plight of those shining few intelects... - 23/12/2011 01:15:47 AM 1578 Views
Much of the actual "Classics", that is, Greek and Latin originals, kids would eat up. - 12/12/2011 03:13:03 AM 1403 Views
Try teaching Apuleius in schools... *NM* - 12/12/2011 04:12:49 AM 764 Views
Plato is exciting, brutal and scandalous? - 12/12/2011 09:59:13 PM 1468 Views
You're upfront and honest about it; he isn't. The difference matters to me. *NM* - 11/12/2011 05:18:42 AM 813 Views
Uhh...uh... - 11/12/2011 05:34:23 AM 1504 Views
this is a bit off topic, but out of curiousity... - 11/12/2011 06:28:35 AM 1612 Views
There are no special snowflakes, are there? - 11/12/2011 09:39:21 PM 1418 Views
There are many way of widening one's horizons and broadening one's mind. - 11/12/2011 10:08:24 PM 1178 Views
I said as much in my comment - 11/12/2011 10:20:03 PM 1447 Views
What I don't like- - 12/12/2011 04:28:55 AM 1533 Views
Why don't you name something, then? - 12/12/2011 04:40:29 AM 1484 Views
Sure. - 13/12/2011 07:30:56 AM 1313 Views
Mentioning Ender's Game pretty much shot your argument in the foot. - 13/12/2011 02:02:59 PM 1423 Views
You dismiss the entire video game medium because many games lack value. - 13/12/2011 03:59:11 PM 1569 Views
You're like the McDonald's paid advocate trying to say Big Macs are actually healthy. - 13/12/2011 05:46:37 PM 1375 Views
McDonalds food is inherently unhealthy. - 13/12/2011 06:02:18 PM 1516 Views
For the sake of argument ... - 13/12/2011 04:09:51 PM 1418 Views
Stephenson is not literature, that's for damn sure. - 13/12/2011 05:49:24 PM 1366 Views
Thank you, The Voice of Lews Therin. *NM* - 16/12/2011 05:14:42 AM 831 Views
I'll leave it up to others to define as they wish against their self-conceptions of me - 10/12/2011 10:52:54 AM 1530 Views
that's alright. I really have no desire to stroke your twit-ego. *NM* - 10/12/2011 04:36:56 PM 624 Views
Considering the firestorm I appear to have touched off, that may be best. - 12/12/2011 12:57:49 PM 1516 Views
I know, John - 12/12/2011 04:27:04 PM 1407 Views
Re: I know, John - 12/12/2011 05:06:26 PM 1468 Views
As I've said in the past, I'd be scared if anyone agreed with me anywhere approaching 100% - 12/12/2011 06:33:52 PM 1402 Views
Re: As I've said in the past, I'd be scared if anyone agreed with me anywhere approaching 100% - 12/12/2011 07:13:37 PM 1481 Views
Same guy - 12/12/2011 07:26:13 PM 1526 Views
Ha! Excellent point. *NM* - 11/12/2011 03:44:52 AM 750 Views
I have to agree. - 09/12/2011 10:54:06 PM 1521 Views
They're there for marketing - 10/12/2011 12:20:17 AM 1506 Views
Most of those comparisons are like that anyway - 10/12/2011 05:32:45 PM 1639 Views
Maybe if so much of the genre weren't crap derivative works it wouldn't be so common. *NM* - 11/12/2011 03:44:24 AM 746 Views
To be fair, a lot of it isn't. - 11/12/2011 04:06:07 AM 1456 Views
I suspect that if it really isn't derivative it's not being compared to Tolkien in the first place. - 11/12/2011 04:18:57 AM 1387 Views
That's true. - 11/12/2011 11:08:01 AM 1376 Views
Maybe they mean something else by using his name. - 11/12/2011 03:50:15 AM 1461 Views
When they don't work, yes. - 11/12/2011 03:18:44 PM 1463 Views
The Tolkien fanaticism gets old. And yes, for me it is unreadable. - 11/12/2011 11:37:53 PM 1447 Views
Yes *NM* - 22/12/2011 07:08:38 PM 865 Views

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