Of course morality stems from God (or rather, from an apprehension of a divine order, be it a God, multiple gods, a mechanism by which the universe works or something else along those lines).
The true atheist is essentially denying that the universe has meaning. By extension, any decision that any individual makes is completely arbitrary. Let's say you get one million people together and every single one says that murder is wrong. It's still arbitrary because the universe has no meaning. Someone could decide that all property is theft, and steal from others left and right, but believe that all murder (including abortion) is wrong. With no meaning to the universe, one can have a million moralities and no means by which any morality could be judged in any objective sense whatsoever.
The Greek sophistries that tried to say that immoral behavior would lead to a person being ostracized, or that pretending to be good while in fact being evil would still not work, have been proven false quite resoundingly by history. What contemporary consensus terms "immoral" tends to succeed quite well in many circumstances.
By contrast, if there is some meaning to the universe, then actions which lead to negative consequences are objectively bad, and so if certain behavior leads to suffering on the part of the person who commits such behavior (whether through divine punishment, the laws of karma, personal distancing from God, or otherwise) then that behavior is to be avoided. The universe itself provides an objective standard by its operation, much like the laws of physics do. "Thou shalt not kill" could be considered as logical as "Don't jump out that window - we're on the 75th floor".
The real problem that remains is determining just WHAT the universe's mechanics are. We all know that al Qaeda members think that God wants them to kill other people, and they expect they will be rewarded for doing so. Other people think that God does NOT want other people killed, and the al Qaeda people will be punished. Because we have no way of measuring if (or how) a terrorist, for example, was punished or rewarded in an afterlife (if such exists), it is impossible to objectively ascertain what is moral and what is immoral. However, if such an arbiter exists then such objectivity is possible (but outside our ability to know it).
How all this relates to Martin is that, if, for example, there is a Many-Faced God, then Arya's assassinations in his name might be rewarded, and as such they would constitute moral behavior. Sure, by most any rational standard which we would apply to the world we live in, assassination is generally bad, but the point is that we cannot apply real-world morality to a fake world unless we understand, metaphysically, how that world works.
The true atheist is essentially denying that the universe has meaning. By extension, any decision that any individual makes is completely arbitrary. Let's say you get one million people together and every single one says that murder is wrong. It's still arbitrary because the universe has no meaning. Someone could decide that all property is theft, and steal from others left and right, but believe that all murder (including abortion) is wrong. With no meaning to the universe, one can have a million moralities and no means by which any morality could be judged in any objective sense whatsoever.
The Greek sophistries that tried to say that immoral behavior would lead to a person being ostracized, or that pretending to be good while in fact being evil would still not work, have been proven false quite resoundingly by history. What contemporary consensus terms "immoral" tends to succeed quite well in many circumstances.
By contrast, if there is some meaning to the universe, then actions which lead to negative consequences are objectively bad, and so if certain behavior leads to suffering on the part of the person who commits such behavior (whether through divine punishment, the laws of karma, personal distancing from God, or otherwise) then that behavior is to be avoided. The universe itself provides an objective standard by its operation, much like the laws of physics do. "Thou shalt not kill" could be considered as logical as "Don't jump out that window - we're on the 75th floor".
The real problem that remains is determining just WHAT the universe's mechanics are. We all know that al Qaeda members think that God wants them to kill other people, and they expect they will be rewarded for doing so. Other people think that God does NOT want other people killed, and the al Qaeda people will be punished. Because we have no way of measuring if (or how) a terrorist, for example, was punished or rewarded in an afterlife (if such exists), it is impossible to objectively ascertain what is moral and what is immoral. However, if such an arbiter exists then such objectivity is possible (but outside our ability to know it).
How all this relates to Martin is that, if, for example, there is a Many-Faced God, then Arya's assassinations in his name might be rewarded, and as such they would constitute moral behavior. Sure, by most any rational standard which we would apply to the world we live in, assassination is generally bad, but the point is that we cannot apply real-world morality to a fake world unless we understand, metaphysically, how that world works.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
A Dance with Dragons discussion thread
11/07/2011 10:48:23 PM
- 6512 Views
A general question to get the discussion started: will two more books be enough?
12/07/2011 02:22:52 PM
- 2278 Views
It'll be tight.
12/07/2011 04:32:39 PM
- 2242 Views
What does "resurrection-as-PWWP Jon" mean? Got it - Prince Who Was Promised!
18/08/2011 08:59:44 PM
- 2136 Views
No but I think 3 will be possible
26/07/2011 03:15:02 AM
- 2052 Views
Hero of the book?
12/07/2011 10:12:02 PM
- 2387 Views
Barristan should be renamed as Ser Grandfather, you do not mess with Ser Grandfather *NM*
26/07/2011 03:32:09 AM
- 1169 Views
Asshole of the book?
12/07/2011 10:46:10 PM
- 2254 Views
Agreed.
12/07/2011 11:18:07 PM
- 2188 Views
Seconded. He'd probably make my short list of Assholes of the Series to date. *NM*
12/07/2011 11:25:04 PM
- 1064 Views
Daenerys Targaryen & lifetime achievement award to Lord Rickard Stark
17/08/2011 12:38:40 AM
- 1975 Views
Idiot of the book.
12/07/2011 11:21:51 PM
- 2288 Views
I think readers are being too hard on Quentyn, If anything I think Doran derserves more mocking.
17/07/2011 01:09:35 AM
- 2449 Views
Is there any hot sex scenes? I won't be able to read it for a while *NM*
13/07/2011 02:35:49 PM
- 1196 Views
YES!
14/07/2011 02:38:48 AM
- 1848 Views

I don't know what to think... (spoiler)
14/07/2011 08:59:39 AM
- 2216 Views
Probably not.
14/07/2011 09:19:03 AM
- 2191 Views
Re: Probably not.
14/07/2011 03:57:55 PM
- 2038 Views
What made least sense for me as far as that is concerned...
14/07/2011 11:51:20 AM
- 2096 Views
Something I totally missed first time through
14/07/2011 09:40:33 AM
- 2399 Views
I'm still not fully done, but about the Reek chapters...
14/07/2011 04:05:29 PM
- 2127 Views
GRRM completely shit the bed on Jon's arc within this book. That's the truth.
16/07/2011 12:51:08 AM
- 2185 Views
Having finished the book, my thoughts. (Spoilers)
16/07/2011 08:11:30 AM
- 2139 Views
Personally, I felt 'A Feast for Crows' was not only better written but more condensed.
17/07/2011 11:15:58 AM
- 2133 Views
Summed up like that there is no way to disagree with what you said
17/07/2011 11:33:01 AM
- 2122 Views
It should be re-titled A Jump with Sharks
17/07/2011 06:00:37 PM
- 2198 Views
Publishers are more interested in the bottom line.
18/07/2011 12:31:56 AM
- 1967 Views
Sadly, I am likely overestimating the intelligence of the readers.
18/07/2011 03:05:12 AM
- 2192 Views
I felt bummed by Sanderson's new series.
18/07/2011 05:25:09 AM
- 2031 Views
You might like this quote from House of Leaves by Mark Z Danielewski.
11/08/2011 03:42:05 PM
- 2112 Views
I'm afraid I have to agree with what seems to be the majority opinion...
17/07/2011 07:35:47 PM
- 2130 Views
And on a different note entirely: is it me, or did the book need more proofreading?
17/07/2011 07:39:15 PM
- 2002 Views
Re: And on a different note entirely: is it me, or did the book need more proofreading?
18/07/2011 02:17:41 AM
- 2166 Views
The book really shows it is AFFC part 2
26/07/2011 03:00:07 AM
- 2034 Views
No doubt, much like readers would've been more forgiving of aFfC if it'd been two years after SoS.
26/07/2011 11:28:43 PM
- 2065 Views
Am I The Only One In Love With Arya's Chapters? *spoilers maybe*
18/07/2011 02:22:00 AM
- 2036 Views
Unlike others, I won't start a separate thread to express my thoughts
19/07/2011 11:21:17 AM
- 2188 Views

Yeah, I wished there was a way to move them in here!
19/07/2011 01:42:51 PM
- 1953 Views
Me too... but going and complaining about them seems so lame, too.
19/07/2011 07:34:47 PM
- 1959 Views
I think you let him off too easily.
20/07/2011 04:19:07 AM
- 2087 Views
It might be that I expected even more of a longeur than what happened
20/07/2011 05:24:50 PM
- 2053 Views
Am I the only one who really likes...
20/07/2011 06:04:00 PM
- 2209 Views
I have to disagree in regards to Penny, she's a plot device and an annoying one at that.
21/07/2011 01:15:33 AM
- 2171 Views
Re: I have to disagree in regards to Penny, she's a plot device and an annoying one at that.
21/07/2011 09:33:00 AM
- 2003 Views
The six bodies fired by the trebuchet
20/07/2011 10:36:16 PM
- 2046 Views
Yes, I was confused by that too.
20/07/2011 10:53:35 PM
- 2002 Views
Probably pale mare victims. Seige warfare via plague
20/07/2011 11:23:10 PM
- 2035 Views
It's not six bodies, it's six trebuchets throwing corpses instead of stones
27/07/2011 01:03:51 AM
- 2086 Views
Stannis
21/07/2011 08:43:40 AM
- 2002 Views
I highly doubt he's dead
21/07/2011 07:29:59 PM
- 2049 Views
The bluff makes the most sense: if the Boltons beat Stannis, why does he ask for Theon & Jeyne?
22/07/2011 12:01:30 AM
- 2099 Views
The letter sounded like the ravings of a psychopath loosing control
27/07/2011 02:56:21 AM
- 2143 Views
The Aegon Twist. Something about this doesn't add up.
21/07/2011 10:43:43 PM
- 2073 Views
Which gods do you think are "real" in Martin's world?
22/07/2011 04:32:39 PM
- 2054 Views
None of them.
22/07/2011 06:25:19 PM
- 1948 Views
Is that personal opinion or based on something Martin said? *NM*
22/07/2011 06:37:57 PM
- 1090 Views
Opinion
22/07/2011 07:43:16 PM
- 1990 Views
Regardless of whether or not they actually get involved, their existence (or not) is signficant.
23/07/2011 02:17:48 AM
- 1856 Views
I think there are some god's, just given different names. Same with the magic.
22/07/2011 09:24:51 PM
- 1973 Views
Lose the apostrophe in the subject line. Then: on what basis do you assume this?
23/07/2011 02:28:49 AM
- 2012 Views
You might want to stop wasting time correcting others typos. As for the gods...
23/07/2011 04:53:59 AM
- 1896 Views

You might want to stop making them. Particularly glaring ones like that.
23/07/2011 05:01:03 AM
- 2073 Views
Morality stems from god?
22/07/2011 10:47:59 PM
- 1970 Views
On second thought, let's address the issue directly.
23/07/2011 05:14:59 AM
- 2050 Views
Perhaps...
24/07/2011 07:03:24 PM
- 1979 Views
Its simple...
24/07/2011 07:37:11 PM
- 1986 Views
I disagree...
25/07/2011 04:10:04 AM
- 2040 Views
Bullshit.
25/07/2011 05:44:41 AM
- 1924 Views
The Seven probably has more power and influence than any other religion though.
25/07/2011 07:51:59 PM
- 1877 Views
In Westeros, but I always got the feeling the Free Cities and other places didn't much care for them
26/07/2011 10:53:45 PM
- 1997 Views
Westeros is the biggest coherent civilisation in the ASoIaF world.
27/07/2011 12:56:21 AM
- 2012 Views
Some thoughts...
25/07/2011 04:54:05 AM
- 1947 Views
It's not an objective morality.
25/07/2011 05:41:33 AM
- 1933 Views
Its not that simple...
25/07/2011 06:21:39 AM
- 1995 Views
I don't disagree with most of what you said. I just reach a different conclusion.
25/07/2011 01:57:31 PM
- 1927 Views
Whats the best new POV
26/07/2011 03:14:05 AM
- 1992 Views
Things you missed till they were pointed out via others or via a reread
26/07/2011 03:23:53 AM
- 2136 Views
A bit.
26/07/2011 12:32:32 PM
- 2093 Views
26/07/2011 03:46:54 PM
- 2050 Views

Re:
27/07/2011 12:43:43 AM
- 1992 Views

Martin doesn't have to do anything
27/07/2011 01:33:36 AM
- 2066 Views
Re: Martin doesn't have to do anything
27/07/2011 04:38:19 AM
- 1934 Views
The crone who prophesied the stallion who mounts the world saw the stallions face
27/07/2011 05:13:28 AM
- 2075 Views
Eh?
29/07/2011 04:44:17 PM
- 2065 Views
This is complicated.
31/07/2011 10:43:15 PM
- 2279 Views
Wait...a woman crowned for beauty was the victorious mystery knight?
01/08/2011 03:00:49 AM
- 1958 Views
It is believed the Knight of the Laughing Tree is one of two people
01/08/2011 04:47:21 AM
- 2020 Views
Hizdahr a Harpy? Innocent or Not?
26/07/2011 03:36:56 AM
- 2270 Views
What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads?
26/07/2011 04:13:27 PM
- 1990 Views
Re: A Dance with Dragons discussion thread
29/07/2011 01:42:57 AM
- 2185 Views
Jon Snow is definitely Azor Ahai.
29/07/2011 07:31:17 PM
- 2512 Views
Yup.
31/07/2011 10:49:34 PM
- 1823 Views
I'm uncertain about that
01/08/2011 05:35:18 AM
- 1978 Views
True, but I wouldn't read too much into that.
01/08/2011 11:42:29 PM
- 2251 Views
Am I the only one who thinks...
09/08/2011 05:16:46 PM
- 2093 Views
I think Martin's gonna stick to Bran being the only one who does that
10/08/2011 09:25:12 AM
- 2160 Views
It's possible, the problem is Jon's warging skill isn't all that well developed.
10/08/2011 10:53:32 PM
- 1949 Views
Anyone have any thoughts as to the purpose of Arya's storyline?
14/08/2011 06:28:09 PM
- 2000 Views
She's being trained as an assassin, so the question is who is she going to kill?
16/08/2011 01:43:12 AM
- 1934 Views