There is probably a lot of truth to the "we end up turning into our parents" cliché. When I tried to get my father to watch Lord of the Rings he said, "That's just silly. I'm not going to watch something that far-fetched."
As I get older, I find myself less able to enjoy fantasy, particularly of the more fantastic variety. More and more, I see that it's just silly, escapist and rapidly becoming synonymous with a class of over-educated underachievers who use it like a drug to just drop out of the real world for long stretches of time. Since actually becoming an adult, I have started very few fantasy series and come to hold in contempt most of what I read when I was in my teens and pre-teens (e.g., Wheel of Time). Aesthetically, stylistically and substantially, these books are usually shit. Rarely, I can ignore the limitations of genre fiction and indulge in a book or two as a diversion (e.g., the Mistborn trilogy).
However, I never really treated Martin as a full-fledged "fantasy genre" author. His books had realistic political intrigue, great plot twists, and the "no character is safe" reputation. They were also, thankfully, light on the fantasy elements. By and large, the world was composed of human beings who fought one another in a conflict that resembled the Wars of the Roses and in a world that resembled England, Wales and Scotland.
This book was a bridge too far for me. The fantasy elements have been blatantly thrown in, Deus ex machina style. Not only do we have wights and dragons, but now it seems that every third character is a warg, there are magic mists that transform people into zombies, lots of poorly described fake cultures (replete with the obligatory Arabic-style Q, tons of ae's, and too many names ending in -os or -is), self-aware trees, elves (or pixies, or whatever you want to call them), dead people coming back into the story, sorceresses and lots of other stupid shit. Martin stepped across the divide between "gritty political thriller in a believable alternate world" into "elves and fairies and pixies", and quite definitively.
His style has also been grating on me. He writes like an American, using American English conventions throughout most of the book, and then throws in Anglicisms without any sort of rhyme or reason, like using "arse" instead of "ass" (but note he still writes "color", "humor" and "dolor", the last in the utterly un-English "Dolorous Edd", which would properly be "Dolourous Edd") and continues to use (ad nauseam, actually) the terrible phrase "must needs", which is a tautological phrase to begin with - if one must do something, it is already of necessity - and in any event largely obsolete.
Added to this is a plot line that was boring as all hell. I found myself skimming, and skimming, and skimming, because the book was just that boring, rolling my eyes or gagging mentally a bit at another piece of tedious idiocy, then skimming more. I kept wondering when something was going to happen. I'm still waiting.
It is my conviction that, ten years from now, publishers will point to Robert Jordan and to George Martin when they tell authors, "We're not accepting series longer than three or four books unless you have the whole thing finished. These long series have a way of getting bogged down and losing their way. Look at Jordan, look at Martin."
I now have two unfinished fantasy series that I am reading to the end just by force of inertia and a sense of, "Well, I read through all of this so I might as well as find out how it all ends now." I will not start a third. Luckily, the Jordan series will (hopefully) soon be over and I can now banish Martin from my mind for another four years or so. The TV series, of course, has been decent so far. I suspect I will lose interest in it too, though, after the first four seasons or so.
As I get older, I find myself less able to enjoy fantasy, particularly of the more fantastic variety. More and more, I see that it's just silly, escapist and rapidly becoming synonymous with a class of over-educated underachievers who use it like a drug to just drop out of the real world for long stretches of time. Since actually becoming an adult, I have started very few fantasy series and come to hold in contempt most of what I read when I was in my teens and pre-teens (e.g., Wheel of Time). Aesthetically, stylistically and substantially, these books are usually shit. Rarely, I can ignore the limitations of genre fiction and indulge in a book or two as a diversion (e.g., the Mistborn trilogy).
However, I never really treated Martin as a full-fledged "fantasy genre" author. His books had realistic political intrigue, great plot twists, and the "no character is safe" reputation. They were also, thankfully, light on the fantasy elements. By and large, the world was composed of human beings who fought one another in a conflict that resembled the Wars of the Roses and in a world that resembled England, Wales and Scotland.
This book was a bridge too far for me. The fantasy elements have been blatantly thrown in, Deus ex machina style. Not only do we have wights and dragons, but now it seems that every third character is a warg, there are magic mists that transform people into zombies, lots of poorly described fake cultures (replete with the obligatory Arabic-style Q, tons of ae's, and too many names ending in -os or -is), self-aware trees, elves (or pixies, or whatever you want to call them), dead people coming back into the story, sorceresses and lots of other stupid shit. Martin stepped across the divide between "gritty political thriller in a believable alternate world" into "elves and fairies and pixies", and quite definitively.
His style has also been grating on me. He writes like an American, using American English conventions throughout most of the book, and then throws in Anglicisms without any sort of rhyme or reason, like using "arse" instead of "ass" (but note he still writes "color", "humor" and "dolor", the last in the utterly un-English "Dolorous Edd", which would properly be "Dolourous Edd") and continues to use (ad nauseam, actually) the terrible phrase "must needs", which is a tautological phrase to begin with - if one must do something, it is already of necessity - and in any event largely obsolete.
Added to this is a plot line that was boring as all hell. I found myself skimming, and skimming, and skimming, because the book was just that boring, rolling my eyes or gagging mentally a bit at another piece of tedious idiocy, then skimming more. I kept wondering when something was going to happen. I'm still waiting.
It is my conviction that, ten years from now, publishers will point to Robert Jordan and to George Martin when they tell authors, "We're not accepting series longer than three or four books unless you have the whole thing finished. These long series have a way of getting bogged down and losing their way. Look at Jordan, look at Martin."
I now have two unfinished fantasy series that I am reading to the end just by force of inertia and a sense of, "Well, I read through all of this so I might as well as find out how it all ends now." I will not start a third. Luckily, the Jordan series will (hopefully) soon be over and I can now banish Martin from my mind for another four years or so. The TV series, of course, has been decent so far. I suspect I will lose interest in it too, though, after the first four seasons or so.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
A Dance with Dragons discussion thread
11/07/2011 10:48:23 PM
- 6236 Views
A general question to get the discussion started: will two more books be enough?
12/07/2011 02:22:52 PM
- 1989 Views
It'll be tight.
12/07/2011 04:32:39 PM
- 1967 Views
What does "resurrection-as-PWWP Jon" mean? Got it - Prince Who Was Promised!
18/08/2011 08:59:44 PM
- 1863 Views
No but I think 3 will be possible
26/07/2011 03:15:02 AM
- 1791 Views
Hero of the book?
12/07/2011 10:12:02 PM
- 2101 Views
Barristan should be renamed as Ser Grandfather, you do not mess with Ser Grandfather *NM*
26/07/2011 03:32:09 AM
- 1010 Views
Asshole of the book?
12/07/2011 10:46:10 PM
- 1982 Views
Agreed.
12/07/2011 11:18:07 PM
- 1926 Views
Seconded. He'd probably make my short list of Assholes of the Series to date. *NM*
12/07/2011 11:25:04 PM
- 908 Views
Daenerys Targaryen & lifetime achievement award to Lord Rickard Stark
17/08/2011 12:38:40 AM
- 1685 Views
Idiot of the book.
12/07/2011 11:21:51 PM
- 2015 Views
I think readers are being too hard on Quentyn, If anything I think Doran derserves more mocking.
17/07/2011 01:09:35 AM
- 2190 Views
Is there any hot sex scenes? I won't be able to read it for a while *NM*
13/07/2011 02:35:49 PM
- 1047 Views
YES!
14/07/2011 02:38:48 AM
- 1597 Views
I don't know what to think... (spoiler)
14/07/2011 08:59:39 AM
- 1942 Views
Probably not.
14/07/2011 09:19:03 AM
- 1938 Views
Re: Probably not.
14/07/2011 03:57:55 PM
- 1767 Views
What made least sense for me as far as that is concerned...
14/07/2011 11:51:20 AM
- 1813 Views
Something I totally missed first time through
14/07/2011 09:40:33 AM
- 2127 Views
I'm still not fully done, but about the Reek chapters...
14/07/2011 04:05:29 PM
- 1864 Views
GRRM completely shit the bed on Jon's arc within this book. That's the truth.
16/07/2011 12:51:08 AM
- 1901 Views
Having finished the book, my thoughts. (Spoilers)
16/07/2011 08:11:30 AM
- 1866 Views
Personally, I felt 'A Feast for Crows' was not only better written but more condensed.
17/07/2011 11:15:58 AM
- 1842 Views
Summed up like that there is no way to disagree with what you said
17/07/2011 11:33:01 AM
- 1838 Views
It should be re-titled A Jump with Sharks
17/07/2011 06:00:37 PM
- 1909 Views
Publishers are more interested in the bottom line.
18/07/2011 12:31:56 AM
- 1695 Views
Sadly, I am likely overestimating the intelligence of the readers.
18/07/2011 03:05:12 AM
- 1913 Views
I felt bummed by Sanderson's new series.
18/07/2011 05:25:09 AM
- 1764 Views
You might like this quote from House of Leaves by Mark Z Danielewski.
11/08/2011 03:42:05 PM
- 1793 Views
I'm afraid I have to agree with what seems to be the majority opinion...
17/07/2011 07:35:47 PM
- 1855 Views
And on a different note entirely: is it me, or did the book need more proofreading?
17/07/2011 07:39:15 PM
- 1753 Views
Re: And on a different note entirely: is it me, or did the book need more proofreading?
18/07/2011 02:17:41 AM
- 1890 Views
The book really shows it is AFFC part 2
26/07/2011 03:00:07 AM
- 1767 Views
No doubt, much like readers would've been more forgiving of aFfC if it'd been two years after SoS.
26/07/2011 11:28:43 PM
- 1804 Views
Am I The Only One In Love With Arya's Chapters? *spoilers maybe*
18/07/2011 02:22:00 AM
- 1791 Views
Unlike others, I won't start a separate thread to express my thoughts
19/07/2011 11:21:17 AM
- 1933 Views
Yeah, I wished there was a way to move them in here!
19/07/2011 01:42:51 PM
- 1675 Views
Me too... but going and complaining about them seems so lame, too.
19/07/2011 07:34:47 PM
- 1677 Views
I think you let him off too easily.
20/07/2011 04:19:07 AM
- 1824 Views
It might be that I expected even more of a longeur than what happened
20/07/2011 05:24:50 PM
- 1764 Views
Am I the only one who really likes...
20/07/2011 06:04:00 PM
- 1878 Views
I have to disagree in regards to Penny, she's a plot device and an annoying one at that.
21/07/2011 01:15:33 AM
- 1913 Views
Re: I have to disagree in regards to Penny, she's a plot device and an annoying one at that.
21/07/2011 09:33:00 AM
- 1734 Views
The six bodies fired by the trebuchet
20/07/2011 10:36:16 PM
- 1777 Views
Yes, I was confused by that too.
20/07/2011 10:53:35 PM
- 1694 Views
Probably pale mare victims. Seige warfare via plague
20/07/2011 11:23:10 PM
- 1745 Views
It's not six bodies, it's six trebuchets throwing corpses instead of stones
27/07/2011 01:03:51 AM
- 1831 Views
Stannis
21/07/2011 08:43:40 AM
- 1734 Views
I highly doubt he's dead
21/07/2011 07:29:59 PM
- 1761 Views
The bluff makes the most sense: if the Boltons beat Stannis, why does he ask for Theon & Jeyne?
22/07/2011 12:01:30 AM
- 1830 Views
The letter sounded like the ravings of a psychopath loosing control
27/07/2011 02:56:21 AM
- 1869 Views
The Aegon Twist. Something about this doesn't add up.
21/07/2011 10:43:43 PM
- 1832 Views
Which gods do you think are "real" in Martin's world?
22/07/2011 04:32:39 PM
- 1763 Views
None of them.
22/07/2011 06:25:19 PM
- 1696 Views
Is that personal opinion or based on something Martin said? *NM*
22/07/2011 06:37:57 PM
- 929 Views
Opinion
22/07/2011 07:43:16 PM
- 1725 Views
Regardless of whether or not they actually get involved, their existence (or not) is signficant.
23/07/2011 02:17:48 AM
- 1583 Views
I think there are some god's, just given different names. Same with the magic.
22/07/2011 09:24:51 PM
- 1701 Views
Lose the apostrophe in the subject line. Then: on what basis do you assume this?
23/07/2011 02:28:49 AM
- 1776 Views
You might want to stop wasting time correcting others typos. As for the gods...
23/07/2011 04:53:59 AM
- 1626 Views
You might want to stop making them. Particularly glaring ones like that.
23/07/2011 05:01:03 AM
- 1807 Views
Morality stems from god?
22/07/2011 10:47:59 PM
- 1693 Views
On second thought, let's address the issue directly.
23/07/2011 05:14:59 AM
- 1764 Views
Perhaps...
24/07/2011 07:03:24 PM
- 1710 Views
Its simple...
24/07/2011 07:37:11 PM
- 1700 Views
I disagree...
25/07/2011 04:10:04 AM
- 1788 Views
Bullshit.
25/07/2011 05:44:41 AM
- 1654 Views
The Seven probably has more power and influence than any other religion though.
25/07/2011 07:51:59 PM
- 1606 Views
In Westeros, but I always got the feeling the Free Cities and other places didn't much care for them
26/07/2011 10:53:45 PM
- 1713 Views
Westeros is the biggest coherent civilisation in the ASoIaF world.
27/07/2011 12:56:21 AM
- 1756 Views
Some thoughts...
25/07/2011 04:54:05 AM
- 1676 Views
It's not an objective morality.
25/07/2011 05:41:33 AM
- 1672 Views
Its not that simple...
25/07/2011 06:21:39 AM
- 1729 Views
I don't disagree with most of what you said. I just reach a different conclusion.
25/07/2011 01:57:31 PM
- 1665 Views
Whats the best new POV
26/07/2011 03:14:05 AM
- 1723 Views
Things you missed till they were pointed out via others or via a reread
26/07/2011 03:23:53 AM
- 1874 Views
A bit.
26/07/2011 12:32:32 PM
- 1837 Views
26/07/2011 03:46:54 PM
- 1775 Views
Re:
27/07/2011 12:43:43 AM
- 1711 Views
Martin doesn't have to do anything
27/07/2011 01:33:36 AM
- 1780 Views
Re: Martin doesn't have to do anything
27/07/2011 04:38:19 AM
- 1683 Views
The crone who prophesied the stallion who mounts the world saw the stallions face
27/07/2011 05:13:28 AM
- 1804 Views
Eh?
29/07/2011 04:44:17 PM
- 1801 Views
This is complicated.
31/07/2011 10:43:15 PM
- 2010 Views
Wait...a woman crowned for beauty was the victorious mystery knight?
01/08/2011 03:00:49 AM
- 1705 Views
It is believed the Knight of the Laughing Tree is one of two people
01/08/2011 04:47:21 AM
- 1739 Views
Hizdahr a Harpy? Innocent or Not?
26/07/2011 03:36:56 AM
- 2007 Views
What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads?
26/07/2011 04:13:27 PM
- 1730 Views
Re: A Dance with Dragons discussion thread
29/07/2011 01:42:57 AM
- 1851 Views
Jon Snow is definitely Azor Ahai.
29/07/2011 07:31:17 PM
- 2242 Views
Yup.
31/07/2011 10:49:34 PM
- 1562 Views
I'm uncertain about that
01/08/2011 05:35:18 AM
- 1709 Views
True, but I wouldn't read too much into that.
01/08/2011 11:42:29 PM
- 1985 Views
Am I the only one who thinks...
09/08/2011 05:16:46 PM
- 1821 Views
I think Martin's gonna stick to Bran being the only one who does that
10/08/2011 09:25:12 AM
- 1740 Views
It's possible, the problem is Jon's warging skill isn't all that well developed.
10/08/2011 10:53:32 PM
- 1715 Views
Anyone have any thoughts as to the purpose of Arya's storyline?
14/08/2011 06:28:09 PM
- 1720 Views
She's being trained as an assassin, so the question is who is she going to kill?
16/08/2011 01:43:12 AM
- 1654 Views