Why I prefer cyberpunk in near future settings to (most) of the steampunk sub-genre.
Joel Send a noteboard - 19/04/2011 10:55:57 PM
I’ve read that
Those comments frankly strike me as bizarre, because my impression of steampunk is that it tries too hard to try too hard. What plot could be more “forced” than grafting modern technologies onto an era we know lacked them, using science we know is invalid? The Difference Engine is compelling because the premise works on a technical level; analog computers existed and Babbages Difference and Analytical Engines lacked only financing, not functionality. Steam powered anachronisms are another matter entirely. They fit well with a 1900s science text I once saw proclaiming steam the greatest power man will ever know and electricity a mere toy, but are implausible in an age when the physics rather than the vision has proven lacking. Verne and Wells looked to a future much like the past of steampunk, but the “difference engine” there is that we have achieved what was possible of their vision and recognize the rest as fantasy rather than science. The Victorian Age embraced most technology, and considered a scientific utopia as imminent as cyberpunks elements are now, notwithstanding the odd technological nightmare.
After a brief Edwardian renaissance, the Great Wars 50 million bullet and plague riddled corpses permanently ended utopian dreams with another nightmare from which we have only recently begun to wake. “Dystopian” isn’t broadly applicable to cyberpunk, much of which features happy functional communities, but postmodernism is--just as it was typical of steampunk until recently. Here the “difference engine” is that those impulses, fully at home in the present and near future, were aberrations in the Victorian Age. The noir sense prevalent in cyberpunk and its inspirations all the way back to Raymond Chandler and Dashiell Hammet is jarringly out of place in the often naïvely enthusiastic Nineteenth Century. It is telling that some RAFOlk question a steampunk pioneer incorporating “punk” in christening the genre: Punks rebellious fatalism fits the cyberpunk that borrows its name, but doesn’t fit the latest (century old) high fashion or the Queens English at all. Thus, rather than being true to the postmodern age as in cyberpunk, steampunk noir, much of steam punk, is literally an “absurd” “forc[ing]” of inappropriate atmosphere on the Victorian age “purely for the sake of being ‘dark’ or ‘gritty’”.
Ironically, Gibsons cyberpunk short The Gernsback Continuum illustrates the fundamental flaws in expectations for both Victorian natural and social science. None of that diminishes science fantasy, but it does raise the question of why historical science fantasy draws such wide audiences with little interest in the science fiction that spawned it. I like science fantasy and alternative history, but prefer science fiction and epic fantasy. When I seek marvels that omit explanations no amount of education or advancement would make possible, I choose pure fantasy rather than fantasy pretending to “science”, invalidated many times over by ACTUAL science. Again, I do not begrudge steampunk to its devotees, nor them to it; Connecticut Yankee in King Arthurs Court (a rare Victorian example of dystopian alternative history) has long been a favorite of mine, as is alternative history as a whole. Steampunk offers the most out of ten cyberpunk derivatives Wikipedia lists (I'm not sure how slasher films, or “splatterpunk”, innovate beyond anything since a lion disemboweled and dismembered the first human on the African savanna). What escapes me is faded interest in cyberpunk despite much of it materializing before our eyes and the likelihood so much more will, particularly when compared to the popularity of alternative history that often requires a generous dose of alternative science. What bothers me is the possibility that “escape” is the operative word, that the near future is so much more daunting than inspiring that most people prefer to fantasize about an impossible past.
Cyberpunk is the definition of trying too hard--forced plots with unlikeable characters put in settings that are absurdly dystopian purely for the sake of being "dark" or "gritty."
Plus, steampunk usually has Victorian garb, which is bitchin' regardless.
Plus, steampunk usually has Victorian garb, which is bitchin' regardless.
Those comments frankly strike me as bizarre, because my impression of steampunk is that it tries too hard to try too hard. What plot could be more “forced” than grafting modern technologies onto an era we know lacked them, using science we know is invalid? The Difference Engine is compelling because the premise works on a technical level; analog computers existed and Babbages Difference and Analytical Engines lacked only financing, not functionality. Steam powered anachronisms are another matter entirely. They fit well with a 1900s science text I once saw proclaiming steam the greatest power man will ever know and electricity a mere toy, but are implausible in an age when the physics rather than the vision has proven lacking. Verne and Wells looked to a future much like the past of steampunk, but the “difference engine” there is that we have achieved what was possible of their vision and recognize the rest as fantasy rather than science. The Victorian Age embraced most technology, and considered a scientific utopia as imminent as cyberpunks elements are now, notwithstanding the odd technological nightmare.
After a brief Edwardian renaissance, the Great Wars 50 million bullet and plague riddled corpses permanently ended utopian dreams with another nightmare from which we have only recently begun to wake. “Dystopian” isn’t broadly applicable to cyberpunk, much of which features happy functional communities, but postmodernism is--just as it was typical of steampunk until recently. Here the “difference engine” is that those impulses, fully at home in the present and near future, were aberrations in the Victorian Age. The noir sense prevalent in cyberpunk and its inspirations all the way back to Raymond Chandler and Dashiell Hammet is jarringly out of place in the often naïvely enthusiastic Nineteenth Century. It is telling that some RAFOlk question a steampunk pioneer incorporating “punk” in christening the genre: Punks rebellious fatalism fits the cyberpunk that borrows its name, but doesn’t fit the latest (century old) high fashion or the Queens English at all. Thus, rather than being true to the postmodern age as in cyberpunk, steampunk noir, much of steam punk, is literally an “absurd” “forc[ing]” of inappropriate atmosphere on the Victorian age “purely for the sake of being ‘dark’ or ‘gritty’”.
Ironically, Gibsons cyberpunk short The Gernsback Continuum illustrates the fundamental flaws in expectations for both Victorian natural and social science. None of that diminishes science fantasy, but it does raise the question of why historical science fantasy draws such wide audiences with little interest in the science fiction that spawned it. I like science fantasy and alternative history, but prefer science fiction and epic fantasy. When I seek marvels that omit explanations no amount of education or advancement would make possible, I choose pure fantasy rather than fantasy pretending to “science”, invalidated many times over by ACTUAL science. Again, I do not begrudge steampunk to its devotees, nor them to it; Connecticut Yankee in King Arthurs Court (a rare Victorian example of dystopian alternative history) has long been a favorite of mine, as is alternative history as a whole. Steampunk offers the most out of ten cyberpunk derivatives Wikipedia lists (I'm not sure how slasher films, or “splatterpunk”, innovate beyond anything since a lion disemboweled and dismembered the first human on the African savanna). What escapes me is faded interest in cyberpunk despite much of it materializing before our eyes and the likelihood so much more will, particularly when compared to the popularity of alternative history that often requires a generous dose of alternative science. What bothers me is the possibility that “escape” is the operative word, that the near future is so much more daunting than inspiring that most people prefer to fantasize about an impossible past.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 19/04/2011 at 11:39:09 PM
The Sprawl Trilogy and Thoughts Thereof (or What Ever Happened to Cyberpunk?)
19/04/2011 10:50:26 PM
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Why I prefer cyberpunk in near future settings to (most) of the steampunk sub-genre.
19/04/2011 10:55:57 PM
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The difference is that steampunk, by and large, is very aware of its implausibility.
20/04/2011 01:32:57 AM
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You keep giving steampunk backhanded compliments like that and you'll start to confuse me.
20/04/2011 02:12:53 AM
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Being entertaining is not a backhanded compliment.
20/04/2011 02:34:15 AM
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It is when asserting something is better than a source containing more than entertainment.
20/04/2011 03:26:50 AM
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...didn't you wear a top hat to your wedding? *NM*
20/04/2011 04:04:42 AM
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IIRC I wore morning dress, the CURRENT standard here.
20/04/2011 05:08:26 AM
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Top hats in morning dress have gone the way of the ascot (you didn't wear an ascot, did you?).
20/04/2011 05:41:54 AM
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Well, my wife, mother-in-law and the woman at the haberdashery all disagree.
20/04/2011 07:05:09 AM
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the ability to wear a costume at a convention is hardly a ringing endorsement of a genre
22/04/2011 01:49:40 AM
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Your impression is close to being my comments verbatim.
22/04/2011 02:50:18 AM
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I tried to avoid that word, but I'll leave comparisons there and discuss pure cyberpunk henceforth.
22/04/2011 03:58:29 PM
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You keep coming back to this argument, and it keeps being a stupid one.
22/04/2011 10:33:14 PM
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I also can't help noting how this whole argument mirrors Count Zero.
24/04/2011 05:35:01 AM
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I think it's just a matter of two separate genres that share very similar names and perhaps origins.
20/04/2011 01:32:50 AM
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It's hard to argue that the genres are separate, but I did try to avoid suggesting a competition.
20/04/2011 03:08:49 AM
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Ok, what are you trying to argue for and/or explore in this thread? There are three options:
20/04/2011 04:22:52 AM
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It is under-appreciated critically, largely due to relative unpopularity.
20/04/2011 06:35:27 AM
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"Victorian Postmodernism" is viable because Postmodernism can appropriate other periods and styles.
21/04/2011 01:13:45 AM
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But can other periods and styles appropriate postmodernism?
21/04/2011 07:38:29 PM
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I don't think it's a two-way street in that manner. It's PoMo appropriating Victorian not vice versa
21/04/2011 11:40:29 PM
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It's only superficially postmodern though, else there'd be no wistfulness for Victorian styles.
22/04/2011 03:17:38 PM
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IMO, cyberpunk has become somewhat dated.
20/04/2011 04:46:55 AM
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Actually, I can live with that, though terms like "dated" invite trouble.
20/04/2011 07:01:50 AM
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Re: Actually, I can live with that, though terms like "dated" invite trouble.
22/04/2011 04:12:20 AM
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so...is bladerunner cyberpunk
20/04/2011 09:48:15 PM
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It's usually seen as the archetypal cyberpunk film, yeah.
21/04/2011 10:50:44 AM
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so cyber is the time and punk is the attitude?
21/04/2011 12:57:01 PM
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I don't think the portmanteau is that precisely defined.
21/04/2011 08:31:34 PM
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I am amazed that no one has referenced this TVTropes page yet...
23/04/2011 07:45:14 PM
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Playing with fire; I should've known TVTropes would exhaustively cover the derivatives.
24/04/2011 03:11:56 AM
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It's always hard to pigeonhole things, especially as they become more specific
24/04/2011 06:27:28 PM
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The "dated" idea is interesting.
23/04/2011 08:08:26 PM
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PS the Takeshi Kovacs books are great, and you should all go read them *NM*
23/04/2011 08:09:54 PM
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I think it underestimates cyberpunk, and overestimates (present) reality (yes, spoilers now).
24/04/2011 02:24:01 AM
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