Sorry. I have been particularly swamped the past couple of weeks.
Camilla Send a noteboard - 09/02/2011 07:36:52 PM
Well, it is an early novel. It does not surprise me terribly that he may be a little unsubtle. Even later on, subtlety is not his strong point, although I think he may have cut back a little on the hammering -- certainly if he does it directly in Oliver Twist. As I said, I need to reread.
It's not so much direct hammering as it is hammer-like sarcasm. Which, you know, per definition isn't direct, but still it's extremely hard to miss the real meaning.
Ah. That is one of his staple traits, if you are talking about what I think you are talking about.
Dickens is, in my opinion, not very good at writing good guys. They are always bland and kind of washed out.
Is it a mean generalization to say that seems to be true for many Victorian writers, and some earlier ones too? (Yes, Fanny Price, I'm thinking of you.)
I think it is true of most writers. Good guys are hard to nuance. I am still reeling from the horror of Dumas' protagonist in Le Chevalier de Sainte-Hermine. And if you ever have occasion to read Bleak House I think you will find Esther Summerson another. Bad guys always seem to be more interesting.
Quite possibly. Even the grisly bits take on a certain nostalgic tint in much modern fiction (I haven't read the Faber book yet), in part because of Dickens.
*nods* I haven't read that much modern fiction in the Victorian age, that I can think of, but yeah, seems plausible.
I quite like the artificial happy endings. Precisely because they are often so clearly artificial.
I think you may be overestimating most readers with the "so clearly" comment. Definitely the readers at the time. As for liking them, I wouldn't have minded a happy ending so much if it had involved the interesting characters - but no, those meet horrible endings one and all. Which is fine in itself, but, you know, then don't bore me with a happy ending for the uninteresting characters... oh well.
You know what Miss Prism said: the good ended happily and the bad unhappily -- that is what fiction means.
I suppose you are right about the great masses of Dickens readers -- they would want the happy ending for its own sake. But I know the awareness of the "false" happy ending is there in some of the literati. I came across a letter from Stevenson to J.M. Barrie, for example, where he commended the latter for his so obviously false happy ending in ... hmm, I cannot remember which book it was.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
structured procrastinator
Charles Dickens - Oliver Twist
- 01/02/2011 08:55:22 PM
7858 Views
I need to reread this one
- 09/02/2011 06:06:06 AM
1580 Views
Finally! I was waiting for you to reply. 
- 09/02/2011 07:28:53 PM
1607 Views
- 09/02/2011 07:28:53 PM
1607 Views
Sorry. I have been particularly swamped the past couple of weeks.
- 09/02/2011 07:36:52 PM
1587 Views
I am rather surprised that nobody else is weighing in on this
- 10/02/2011 10:23:24 PM
1383 Views
You and me both. Especially when my reviews of rather more obscure books do get replies... *NM*
- 10/02/2011 10:24:45 PM
776 Views
A Christmas Carol would be his most famous book, methinks.
- 10/02/2011 10:29:00 PM
1449 Views
I think Oliver Twist is far more famous internationally. But maybe that's just around here. *NM*
- 10/02/2011 10:30:22 PM
736 Views
I was busy with a work audit the days it was first visible here (3 day settings for me)
- 10/02/2011 11:40:04 PM
1398 Views
Re: I was busy with a work audit the days it was first visible here (3 day settings for me)
- 10/02/2011 11:44:21 PM
1448 Views
I had assumed I had alread read this but I haven't. How did that happen?
- 16/02/2011 01:24:36 AM
1397 Views