Dumbledore: I like how Dumbledore is made human here. His regrets and how his rejection of power is founded in a belief that he cannot be trusted with it. I am not sure it is justified, as power does not seem to have been his main goal even as he was teaming up with Grindewald.
That's a good point. And I liked the previously suggested reasons for his refusal to become Minister better.
Although the Malfoys should perhaps be mentioned. They have shown themselves as surprisingly loving parents throughout (especially considering the scenes in earlier books where Draco's relationship with his father, especially, seems to be characterised by a lack of (demonstrated, at any rate) love. I like how Narcissa saves Harry to save Draco, and how the Malfoys cannot be bothered with the fighting once they are inside the castle. It would be too much of a stretch to have them fight on the side of Good, and I prefer this rejection of sides at all in favour of finding their son.
Agreed with that. One gets the impression that the balance of power in the family has shifted, Narcissa being in the lead now and Lucius following, and that has its consequences in what they do.
Yes, I think you are right.
And Molly. It was mentioned earlier that Molly has become a sort of housewifey caricature character when in earlier times she would have been both competent and courageous. I like that this resurfaces in this final battle. Yes, her provocation is an attack on her one daughter (which brings back up Ron's suspicions), but her competency is unquestionable, as the woman who could easily fend off Hermione, Luna and Ginny in one go is suddenly forced to concentrate.
Well, see, it is in itself defensible that a grown woman is indeed more of a force to be reckoned with than three schoolgirls, even when those three schoolgirls are rather good for their age. It is possible to say, look here, Ginny may be redoubtable and all, but that's only by schoolgirl standards. Unfortunately, considering that the entirety of book seven consists of three schoolkids doing everything by themselves, ignoring the adults and carrying the day, it feels rather inconsistent to suddenly give such weight to adult experience now. It would have been far more credible if 1) Molly had defeated Bellatrix with a quick lucky shot, 2) Molly had defeated Bellatrix with the aid of the girls, or of course 3) Bellatrix had summarily defeated or even killed Molly.
So, yeah, I still really don't like it. That she throws herself into that fight, absolutely; that she is better than the three girls combined and defeats Bellatrix in a fair fight, absolutely not.
I really disagree. My point is precisely that Molly is not just a grown woman, which is what she has been presented as throughout the series. That is what I referred to with the housewifey caricature comment. She is presented as someone whose main character trait is that she is an adult with children. But she was a member of the Order in her own right when she was young. So it is not a matter of experience trumping ability. It is the two together. Plus determination to protect her own -- and it has already been established that feelings affect spells (I'm thinking of the crucio spell). The one thing I find a little problematic is that she would tell everyone to not participate, as it would make sense to get as much help as possible, but I suppose that is covered by the protecting the young trait which has been presented as her main one.
Voldemort: I was intrigued by his reaction to Bellatrix' death. Considering his attitude to her lately, I would not have expected him to care. It must be a result of everyone else having fallen, but even so that reaction seems uncharacteristic.
I suppose he does appreciate having a fiercely loyal psycho by his side who hangs on his every word? 
To be fair, who wouldn't?
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
structured procrastinator
The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book 7 - The Deathly Hallows
- 24/11/2010 07:47:44 PM
3910 Views
Suggestions - tell us what we could do better for this final discussion.
- 24/11/2010 07:48:22 PM
1736 Views
The series as a whole: overall thoughts about the Harry Potter universe and all it contains
- 24/11/2010 07:49:21 PM
1779 Views
Overall thoughts for The Deathly Hallows
- 24/11/2010 07:50:12 PM
1841 Views
This might be the only book other than the first where I actually like Harry.
- 30/11/2010 03:13:25 PM
1752 Views
Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
- 04/12/2010 03:45:24 PM
1884 Views
Re: Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
- 04/12/2010 10:33:03 PM
1906 Views
Going all the way back to the beginning in a number of ways, all of them so far excellent.
- 07/12/2010 10:19:33 PM
1928 Views
Having finished it again... it's good, at times great, but not the best book in the series, imho.
- 26/12/2010 08:19:47 PM
1999 Views
Chapters 1-3: The Dark Lord Ascending, In Memorian, The Dursleys Departing.
- 24/11/2010 07:51:29 PM
1832 Views
Characters: Voldemort, the Death Eaters, Harry, Dodge, Dumbledore, Skeeter & the Dursleys
- 24/11/2010 07:52:55 PM
1871 Views
Snape, Draco, Lucius, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Ms Burbage, Dumbledore, and the Dursleys.
- 24/11/2010 11:46:16 PM
1972 Views
Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
- 25/11/2010 04:44:36 PM
2034 Views
Re: Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
- 25/11/2010 04:53:25 PM
1917 Views
As Katie said, the husband is still around.
- 26/11/2010 10:56:30 AM
1936 Views
Re: Charity Burbage
- 25/11/2010 06:47:43 PM
1838 Views
Re: Charity Burbage
- 25/11/2010 06:48:52 PM
1761 Views
Dudley
- 30/11/2010 03:16:25 PM
1757 Views
Agreed, but she just went overboard too far early on for it to be credible now.
- 06/12/2010 08:44:48 PM
1933 Views
Plotting, writing, early themes.
- 24/11/2010 07:53:33 PM
1834 Views
Anything else? *NM*
- 24/11/2010 07:53:46 PM
801 Views
other stuff
- 24/11/2010 11:47:54 PM
1704 Views
I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
- 25/11/2010 04:26:58 PM
1686 Views
Re: I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
- 27/11/2010 01:20:44 AM
1797 Views
Chapters 4-6: The Seven Potters, The Fallen Warrior, The Ghoul in Pyjamas *NM*
- 26/11/2010 07:27:53 PM
908 Views
Characters: Harry, the Order, Hedwig, Mr & Mrs Tonks, Voldemort, etc
- 26/11/2010 07:29:48 PM
1819 Views
Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
- 27/11/2010 11:56:17 AM
2130 Views
Re: Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
- 30/11/2010 02:52:12 PM
1974 Views
The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
- 26/11/2010 07:30:35 PM
1698 Views
Re: The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
- 27/11/2010 11:59:36 AM
2069 Views
Yes, Dumbledore gives a very complex answer about the wand thing
- 01/12/2010 08:44:57 PM
1698 Views
Any other thoughts? *NM*
- 26/11/2010 07:30:49 PM
911 Views
Chapters 7-9: The Will of Albus Dumbledore, The Wedding, A Place to Hide
- 29/11/2010 06:39:52 PM
1676 Views
The characters: usual suspects, Scrimgeour, Doge, Krum, Luna, Xenophilius, etc.
- 29/11/2010 06:41:41 PM
1776 Views
I just realized something about Krum.
- 06/12/2010 09:00:28 PM
1744 Views
The action.
- 29/11/2010 06:42:10 PM
1668 Views
Hermione and obliviate.
- 30/11/2010 02:23:51 PM
1749 Views
Re: Hermione and obliviate.
- 30/11/2010 03:24:06 PM
1797 Views
I think this was a Rowling mistake. It happens
- 01/12/2010 08:32:25 PM
1823 Views
Agreed, though a rather blatant one that someone should have caught... *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:18:58 PM
889 Views
Kreacher quoting Regulus raises an interesting point...
- 06/12/2010 08:33:02 PM
1930 Views
Er, I posted this in the wrong place. That's what I get when I try to catch up. Sorry. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:34:06 PM
939 Views
Sorry. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:34:06 PM
939 Views
Please, sir, may I have some more? *NM*
- 29/11/2010 06:44:14 PM
863 Views
I love the use of Patronuses (Patroni?) as messengers.
- 30/11/2010 02:59:04 PM
1807 Views
Chapters 10-12: Kreacher's Tale, The Bribe, Magic is Might
- 01/12/2010 11:41:40 PM
1660 Views
Characters: more of the trio, Kreacher, Mundungus, RAB and Umbridge
- 01/12/2010 11:42:34 PM
1683 Views
Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
- 02/12/2010 09:11:21 AM
1978 Views
Re: Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
- 04/12/2010 10:55:34 PM
1978 Views
Seconded. Righteous anger is more fun than whiny angst-anger. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 09:41:16 PM
875 Views
I'm not sure why we're supposed to be surprised about Scrimgeour.
- 06/12/2010 09:46:27 PM
1988 Views
Two things about Mafalda Hopkirk.
- 06/12/2010 09:54:53 PM
1771 Views
Weaving the plot, the writing, and thematic matters.
- 01/12/2010 11:43:25 PM
1802 Views
The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 09:14:21 AM
1858 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 02:12:29 PM
1874 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 02:35:06 PM
1597 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 04:16:14 PM
1885 Views
And? And? And? *NM*
- 01/12/2010 11:43:46 PM
908 Views
Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
- 04/12/2010 10:21:42 PM
1903 Views
Re: Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
- 04/12/2010 10:32:17 PM
1799 Views
Chapters 13-15: The Muggle-Born Registration Commission, The Thief, The Goblin's Revenge *NM*
- 04/12/2010 11:01:25 AM
1059 Views
Characters: Ministry members, the trio, Ted, Dean, Dirk, Goblins, Phineas Nigellus
- 04/12/2010 11:07:57 AM
1781 Views
Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 04/12/2010 09:59:45 PM
1979 Views
Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 06/12/2010 10:41:08 PM
1958 Views
Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 06/12/2010 10:45:17 PM
1831 Views
Plotting, writing, theming.
- 04/12/2010 11:08:47 AM
1938 Views
Apparating and the fidelius charm, some good plotting and the food problem.
- 04/12/2010 10:01:16 PM
1974 Views
Anything else? *NM*
- 04/12/2010 11:10:52 AM
936 Views
It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
- 06/12/2010 10:09:04 PM
1793 Views
Re: It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
- 06/12/2010 10:17:42 PM
1745 Views
Chapters 16-18: Godric's Hollow, Bathilda's Secret, The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore
- 06/12/2010 09:57:00 PM
1800 Views
Characters: Harry, Hermione, Bathilda, Dumbledore and others
- 06/12/2010 09:57:52 PM
1874 Views
Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:02:13 PM
1907 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:14:26 PM
1987 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:18:15 PM
2082 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:34:15 PM
1772 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:36:18 PM
1794 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:39:58 PM
2038 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:42:27 PM
1657 Views
I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
- 07/12/2010 08:47:11 PM
1680 Views
Re: I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
- 07/12/2010 08:55:54 PM
1724 Views
Lights! Camera! Action!
- 06/12/2010 09:59:52 PM
1768 Views
But wait! There's more!
- 06/12/2010 10:00:34 PM
1740 Views
Chapters 19-21: The Silver Doe, Xenophilius Lovegood, The Tale of the Three Brothers
- 08/12/2010 08:47:04 PM
1812 Views
Characters: Harry, Hermione, Ron, Lovegood ... and not many more. *NM*
- 08/12/2010 08:49:28 PM
964 Views
Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 12:01:57 AM
1902 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 03:04:11 PM
1943 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 08:03:05 PM
1818 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 11:48:08 PM
2014 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 08:44:01 PM
1846 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:00:44 PM
1794 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:16:48 PM
1770 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:19:38 PM
1795 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 19/12/2010 06:58:04 PM
1729 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 20/12/2010 09:36:17 AM
1753 Views
What was that again about Hermione not being so good at thinking on her feet?
- 09/12/2010 07:52:23 PM
1809 Views
Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 08/12/2010 08:50:53 PM
1889 Views
Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 09/12/2010 12:04:37 AM
1789 Views
Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 09/12/2010 03:25:53 PM
1776 Views
I don't think it works that way. They aren't "used up".
- 09/12/2010 06:52:29 PM
1740 Views
up up down down left right left right b a select start. look at me I have 99 horcruxes!
- 10/12/2010 04:19:56 AM
1483 Views
- 10/12/2010 04:19:56 AM
1483 Views
They're not so annoying yet, now.
- 09/12/2010 06:56:46 PM
1676 Views
Re: They're not so annoying yet, now.
- 09/12/2010 11:52:02 PM
1871 Views
Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
- 10/12/2010 08:56:28 PM
1827 Views
- 10/12/2010 08:56:28 PM
1827 Views
Re: Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
- 10/12/2010 08:59:41 PM
1914 Views
- 10/12/2010 08:59:41 PM
1914 Views
Chapters 22-24: The Deathly Hallows, Malfoy Manor, The Wandmaker.
- 10/12/2010 09:11:32 PM
1680 Views
Characters: The Trio, the Malfoys, Dobby, a number of others. *NM*
- 10/12/2010 09:12:30 PM
931 Views
Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 10/12/2010 11:23:09 PM
1988 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 13/12/2010 08:47:27 PM
1808 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 13/12/2010 09:26:58 PM
2013 Views
On a side note about wands
- 14/12/2010 06:05:13 PM
1838 Views
Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
- 14/12/2010 08:59:26 PM
1849 Views
- 14/12/2010 08:59:26 PM
1849 Views
Re: Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
- 14/12/2010 09:04:43 PM
1907 Views
- 14/12/2010 09:04:43 PM
1907 Views
Plot, writing, themes. *NM*
- 10/12/2010 09:13:37 PM
934 Views
An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 10/12/2010 11:24:05 PM
1716 Views
Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 20/12/2010 01:00:38 PM
1883 Views
Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 20/12/2010 07:32:48 PM
1868 Views
Chapters 25-27: Shell Cottage, Gringotts, The Final Hiding Place
- 13/12/2010 10:03:15 PM
1710 Views
Characters *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:03:29 PM
892 Views
Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 05:16:51 PM
1855 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:04:09 PM
1840 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:19:04 PM
1905 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:37:00 PM
1767 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:45:36 PM
1909 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 20/12/2010 03:33:49 PM
1910 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 20/12/2010 07:35:51 PM
2094 Views
Plot, action, etc. *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:04:02 PM
889 Views
red herring, fidelius charm information and full circle.
- 14/12/2010 05:17:11 PM
1638 Views
Other things. *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:04:23 PM
797 Views
Film stuff
- 14/12/2010 05:17:18 PM
1733 Views
Excellent point.
- 14/12/2010 10:05:01 PM
1718 Views
Re: Excellent point.
- 14/12/2010 10:09:53 PM
1735 Views
Sometimes Rowling's parallels are far too simplistic and unsophisticated.
- 20/12/2010 03:39:50 PM
1733 Views
Chapters 28-30: The Missing Mirror, The Lost Diadem, The Sacking of Severus Snape *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:07:20 PM
926 Views
Characters *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:07:31 PM
861 Views
Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 16/12/2010 11:52:46 PM
2003 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 20/12/2010 05:16:13 PM
1845 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 20/12/2010 11:02:45 PM
1826 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 26/12/2010 08:43:03 PM
1838 Views
Writing, action, plot, theme, yadda yadda yadda. *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:08:04 PM
883 Views
red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 16/12/2010 11:53:56 PM
1821 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 20/12/2010 05:38:46 PM
1796 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 20/12/2010 11:06:01 PM
1999 Views
Other things. *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:08:25 PM
901 Views
Chapters 31-33: The Battle for Hogwarts, The Elder Wand, The Prince's Tale
- 19/12/2010 07:56:39 PM
1797 Views
Characters: far too many to mention.
- 19/12/2010 07:58:41 PM
1676 Views
Too many to mention, indeed.
- 20/12/2010 09:30:54 AM
2023 Views
The action, and plot advancement and completion.
- 19/12/2010 08:00:09 PM
1820 Views
memories, cinematic moments and parallels.
- 20/12/2010 09:32:27 AM
1583 Views
Chapters 34-36: The Forest Again, King's Cross, The Flaw in the Plan
- 20/12/2010 07:31:27 PM
1673 Views
Characters: Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Ron, Hermione, et al.
- 20/12/2010 07:32:15 PM
1708 Views
Harry, Dumbledore, Neville, the Malfoys, Molly and Voldemort
- 20/12/2010 11:28:19 PM
1830 Views
The Malfoys and Molly
- 01/01/2011 10:55:28 PM
1922 Views
Re: The Malfoys and Molly
- 02/01/2011 10:35:47 AM
1921 Views
Tying up the plot.
- 20/12/2010 07:33:00 PM
1690 Views
Narnia, blood, revenge of the downtrodden, sacrifice, plans and souls
- 20/12/2010 11:29:44 PM
1814 Views
Epilogue: the future.
- 20/12/2010 07:35:06 PM
1813 Views