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I'd have a slow moving plot to fast moving nonsense any day. fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 15/09/2009 05:36:20 AM
A lot, that's how many.

Dan Brown at least knows how to advance a plot. Robert Jordan couldn't. George Martin seems to be having serious problems with the same point.

However, both their plots have both realism and internal consistency, a strong development of themes and are filled with believable characters, all written in decent prose that doesn't make you want to kick things.
Slow plot movement is nothing when these elements are present.

Brown, on the other hand, has two dimensional paper cutouts who race through a story that is completely devoid of realism (which is a staggering indictment, since his stories are set in our world, while Martin's and Jordan's are not). There are absolutely no themes, except perhaps that heroes are handsome and villains are not!
This message last edited by fionwe1987 on 15/09/2009 at 05:55:37 AM
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Why is it that so many people hate Dan Brown? Tom - 14/09/2009 09:24:31 PM 2235 Views
His prose is bad. Very bad. Rebekah - 14/09/2009 09:28:28 PM 1085 Views
It's not any worse than Robert Jordan's prose. I'd say it's better, in fact. Tom - 14/09/2009 09:30:17 PM 955 Views
Re: It's not any worse than Robert Jordan's prose. I'd say it's better, in fact. Camilla - 14/09/2009 09:32:44 PM 1111 Views
In defense of italics... smaug - 14/09/2009 11:58:35 PM 1035 Views
Re: In defense of italics... Camilla - 15/09/2009 08:02:56 AM 1061 Views
I just rechecked... smaug - 15/09/2009 11:17:23 AM 966 Views
Thereby... Wibble - 15/09/2009 10:31:44 PM 1003 Views
I have a problem with comparing those italics. Rebekah - 15/09/2009 10:33:53 PM 1005 Views
Oh probably Wibble - 15/09/2009 10:40:15 PM 1003 Views
Hehe Rebekah - 15/09/2009 10:42:23 PM 1088 Views
In defense of nothing in particular... smaug - 15/09/2009 11:16:09 PM 1091 Views
Ah. Leroux did publish it as a serial in magazine first so that makes sense. *NM* Rebekah - 15/09/2009 11:19:40 PM 489 Views
Re: Thereby... Camilla - 16/09/2009 10:40:18 AM 1152 Views
I love that line, and nothing you say will change that. Legolas - 15/09/2009 11:15:29 PM 981 Views
That line is great smaug - 15/09/2009 11:21:03 PM 996 Views
Jordan didn't have the good sense TO FINISH ANY FUCKING PLOT THREAD Tom - 15/09/2009 04:46:06 AM 982 Views
Wow, the vehemence. Craig - 15/09/2009 05:55:38 AM 1005 Views
Riddle me this, Batman - if he weren't dying, would he have even done that? *NM* Tom - 15/09/2009 01:53:57 PM 586 Views
Yes. Werthead - 15/09/2009 03:38:34 PM 1002 Views
burn *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/09/2009 04:24:49 PM 467 Views
Relevant post as always Celia *NM* Walker_Boh - 15/09/2009 11:36:34 PM 563 Views
So you say... Tom - 16/09/2009 02:17:47 AM 976 Views
No, he didn't. Werthead - 16/09/2009 04:44:31 AM 1041 Views
Re: Jordan didn't have the good sense TO FINISH ANY FUCKING PLOT THREAD Camilla - 15/09/2009 08:05:26 AM 1013 Views
His attitude to history isn't really any different from that of most writers Tom - 15/09/2009 01:54:55 PM 979 Views
Except Camilla - 15/09/2009 04:56:23 PM 1002 Views
And ALSO except Tom - 17/09/2009 02:59:03 PM 1094 Views
Re: And ALSO except Camilla - 17/09/2009 05:27:40 PM 990 Views
I vehemently disagree with this! Rebekah - 14/09/2009 09:33:05 PM 1265 Views
How many chapters of Aes Sedai dresses and horse names did we go through in his books? Tom - 15/09/2009 04:45:04 AM 1023 Views
I'd have a slow moving plot to fast moving nonsense any day. fionwe1987 - 15/09/2009 05:36:20 AM 1081 Views
With Jordan, that movement was glacial Tom - 15/09/2009 01:58:08 PM 975 Views
so...your problem with jordan is that you're impatient? LadyLorraine - 15/09/2009 04:26:07 PM 923 Views
How many of us can say we're not antsy to know what happened? nossy - 15/09/2009 05:03:24 PM 980 Views
So plot progression is all that matters? What about the other stuff I mentioned? *NM* fionwe1987 - 15/09/2009 04:50:06 PM 459 Views
Jordan's characters are just as two-dimensional as Brown's Tom - 16/09/2009 02:17:19 AM 934 Views
Bull... fionwe1987 - 16/09/2009 03:15:49 AM 983 Views
No, I think you're just blinded by liking WoT Tom - 17/09/2009 03:00:28 PM 945 Views
No, you seem to be blinded by disliking him, more like. Legolas - 17/09/2009 06:25:21 PM 961 Views
It's not hyperbole. Tom - 17/09/2009 08:13:47 PM 986 Views
Yes, it is, and you're really going to have to back your stance up with arguments. Legolas - 17/09/2009 09:21:56 PM 1003 Views
No it isn't, and I won't. I'm bored with this debate. *NM* Tom - 18/09/2009 02:57:00 PM 522 Views
Yeah like that's not the case with you and Dan Brown. fionwe1987 - 17/09/2009 06:56:37 PM 1005 Views
I don't think Dan Brown is a stellar writer. Tom - 17/09/2009 08:11:41 PM 964 Views
Heh. It was "favourite" fantasy series not "best". Rebekah - 17/09/2009 08:19:02 PM 959 Views
Then why defend him? fionwe1987 - 18/09/2009 12:14:35 AM 924 Views
No Camilla - 18/09/2009 10:09:02 AM 1097 Views
Examples. Werthead - 17/09/2009 01:53:21 AM 1159 Views
LOL Rebekah - 17/09/2009 03:16:23 PM 1018 Views
Because he is shit? Camilla - 14/09/2009 09:38:59 PM 1223 Views
Camilla, you've read shit before and liked it. Tom - 15/09/2009 04:43:24 AM 991 Views
Re: Camilla, you've read shit before and liked it. Camilla - 15/09/2009 08:04:18 AM 976 Views
Yes, I was talking about the book. Tom - 15/09/2009 01:58:54 PM 928 Views
Re: Yes, I was talking about the book. Camilla - 15/09/2009 04:56:53 PM 922 Views
Also Camilla - 14/09/2009 09:41:25 PM 1018 Views
Hate is a strong word. PhotoJim - 14/09/2009 09:44:02 PM 1090 Views
Nicely put. *NM* Rebekah - 14/09/2009 09:46:03 PM 497 Views
*NM* Tashmere - 15/09/2009 04:16:35 AM 505 Views
He still didn't dick around with us as long as Robert Jordan did. *NM* Tom - 15/09/2009 04:41:01 AM 500 Views
I'm not disagreeing with you on that one. *NM* PhotoJim - 15/09/2009 12:12:52 PM 527 Views
Elitism and frustration he sells so much and better authors don't? Legolas - 14/09/2009 09:51:39 PM 926 Views
I think so. Tom - 15/09/2009 04:40:20 AM 990 Views
you thought meyers was entertaining???? LadyLorraine - 15/09/2009 04:28:48 PM 950 Views
You thought it wasn't entertaining? Darth_Katie - 15/09/2009 07:42:06 PM 958 Views
I would phrase that 'better' authors Wibble - 15/09/2009 10:29:54 PM 970 Views
Okay, fair enough. Legolas - 15/09/2009 11:16:56 PM 883 Views
Given that I know nothing about Dan Brown nossy - 14/09/2009 09:54:15 PM 1072 Views
Pfft! ~locks your reply~ Rebekah - 14/09/2009 10:00:23 PM 969 Views
ooo, lock me baby! nossy - 14/09/2009 10:12:48 PM 1041 Views
A couple of the above points, and Suspension of Disbelief. Craig - 14/09/2009 10:23:26 PM 1034 Views
Good point about the "Ridiculous Things", that bugged me too. Legolas - 14/09/2009 10:35:32 PM 1093 Views
there is a difference between a book, which is a respectable medium, and a hollywood movie. jh - 14/09/2009 10:41:06 PM 939 Views
There is really only a difference if you're looking for some higher learnin' nossy - 14/09/2009 10:52:39 PM 1011 Views
That statement makes no sense. *NM* jh - 14/09/2009 10:55:53 PM 392 Views
She must have been reading too much Dan Brown. Rebekah - 14/09/2009 10:58:51 PM 972 Views
Yes it does nossy - 14/09/2009 11:00:41 PM 931 Views
Only to the strangest of elitists. *NM* Ghavrel - 15/09/2009 12:49:53 AM 515 Views
Go read screenplays for fun, populist. *NM* jh - 15/09/2009 10:20:01 AM 536 Views
Ghavrel - 15/09/2009 06:25:26 PM 965 Views
Oh, I am sorry. jh - 16/09/2009 11:11:07 AM 859 Views
Well... Craig - 14/09/2009 11:16:00 PM 939 Views
I accept your points, but also your final statement Tom - 15/09/2009 04:38:46 AM 927 Views
More to the point then... people don't really need a good reason to hate something in particular. Craig - 15/09/2009 06:00:33 AM 1001 Views
You didn't even like him as Mugatu in Zoolander? *NM* Tom - 15/09/2009 01:47:57 PM 499 Views
Now, now. Craig - 15/09/2009 07:03:48 PM 939 Views
Suspension of disbelief is a relative thing random thoughts - 15/09/2009 11:25:32 PM 1014 Views
Damn near everything is a relative thing. Craig - 16/09/2009 05:25:48 AM 1020 Views
I'm indifferent to him Larry - 15/09/2009 01:14:37 AM 997 Views
If you're indifferent, you are apparently in a minority. Tom - 15/09/2009 04:36:28 AM 946 Views
To put Brown's mediocrity in perspective, read Da Vinci and then Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco. *NM* RandAllThor - 15/09/2009 01:32:11 AM 513 Views
Eh, I enjoyed DaVinci better. You can all crucify me now. Craig - 15/09/2009 01:49:28 AM 928 Views
Re: Eh, I enjoyed DaVinci better. You can all crucify me now. RandAllThor - 15/09/2009 01:54:17 AM 1062 Views
Re: Rose Craig - 15/09/2009 02:16:53 AM 952 Views
As someone who appreciated Foucault's Pendulum I don't argue his mediocrity. Tom - 15/09/2009 04:30:31 AM 825 Views
I agree with your last sentence strongly. Joker - 26/09/2009 08:18:42 PM 1169 Views
I don't hate him, and I've never read any of his books Brian - 15/09/2009 01:45:37 AM 933 Views
He was over hyped to me. Tashmere - 15/09/2009 04:15:32 AM 949 Views
Da Vinci, not "Da Vinchi". The latter would be pronounced like "Da Vinki" in English. *NM* Tom - 15/09/2009 04:32:40 AM 498 Views
I will fix it for for you. I just didn't care enough to look up the spelling on it. Tashmere - 15/09/2009 02:49:08 PM 1043 Views
I agree it was way overhyped. everynametaken - 16/09/2009 02:12:39 AM 886 Views
Heh, I actually had the opposite. Craig - 16/09/2009 05:26:55 AM 957 Views
The thing I hate the most is actually the fans who suddenly "know" stuff.... Sophy - 15/09/2009 07:49:22 AM 1078 Views
Yes! *NM* Camilla - 15/09/2009 08:06:35 AM 480 Views
I try to avoid stupid people like that altogether Tom - 15/09/2009 01:49:53 PM 881 Views
And move to a deserted island? Sophy - 15/09/2009 02:33:01 PM 1132 Views
Those people are everywhere, but you don't have to talk to them Tom - 17/09/2009 03:02:24 PM 1005 Views
Lol. I agree wholeheartedly. everynametaken - 16/09/2009 02:17:51 AM 1001 Views
My take on why Dan Brown is so disliked. MightyYT - 15/09/2009 08:51:04 AM 1046 Views
As I've said before, I don't disagree that he's a mediocre writer Tom - 15/09/2009 01:52:23 PM 928 Views
He 'true' book claims 5 million women were killed during the witch hunt AgentOrange - 15/09/2009 11:55:40 AM 941 Views
I would hardly say I hate him Mark - 15/09/2009 02:33:13 PM 987 Views
I think it's more the totally inexplicable nature of his success Werthead - 15/09/2009 03:48:28 PM 1107 Views
Eragon and Twilight indicate all that is evil to me in the world LadyLorraine - 15/09/2009 04:33:29 PM 1078 Views
I hardly think it's that inexplicable. Legolas - 15/09/2009 04:33:39 PM 947 Views
Honestly, his works play on a very basic fact of human psychology., everynametaken - 16/09/2009 02:23:56 AM 1040 Views
Misplaced superiority. Jacob - 15/09/2009 05:10:34 PM 1018 Views
Well, regarding goodkind... jh - 15/09/2009 05:23:34 PM 979 Views
I couldn't say... Jacob - 15/09/2009 05:57:12 PM 1046 Views
well, you stuck with the poor quality books longer than me. *NM* jh - 16/09/2009 12:39:23 AM 490 Views
It's pure literary snobbery Wibble - 15/09/2009 11:08:44 PM 985 Views
I agree with you 100%. Tom - 16/09/2009 02:20:11 AM 912 Views
Very nice summary. everynametaken - 16/09/2009 02:32:38 AM 1064 Views
That's more than a little unfair. Craig - 16/09/2009 05:29:59 AM 922 Views
Dan Brown is a snob. Sophy - 16/09/2009 06:32:21 AM 1079 Views
Where does the rule come from that you can't read good books while travelling? It is nonsense! Camilla - 18/09/2009 10:16:56 AM 1192 Views
because all of the cool kids hate him random thoughts - 15/09/2009 11:17:29 PM 865 Views
He has an enormous schwanzstucker. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 16/09/2009 01:18:37 AM 652 Views
I figured that'd set most guys against him. *NM* rebelaessedai - 16/09/2009 01:51:56 AM 515 Views
I don't get it either. everynametaken - 16/09/2009 02:01:04 AM 911 Views
I think you'll appreciate this Tom Geoff - 16/09/2009 03:03:24 PM 1115 Views
Hmm. The sneerathon seems like a good idea. jh - 16/09/2009 03:52:15 PM 957 Views
That was lovely, thank you! Tom - 17/09/2009 03:04:46 PM 945 Views
My pleasure Geoff - 17/09/2009 03:58:31 PM 997 Views
I don't. I think he's just average, though occasionally fun for an easy read/skim *NM* IndigoAjah - 17/09/2009 12:39:05 AM 525 Views
Plenty of them probably don't. They just don't have the guts to say what they truly think. *NM* Vodalus - 17/09/2009 10:10:39 PM 476 Views
And yet there's still no "Why do so many people hate Faile?" post on the WoT board... *NM* TaskmasterJack - 18/09/2009 04:05:26 PM 650 Views
How do you know? *NM* jh - 18/09/2009 04:57:15 PM 518 Views
I pop in there on occasion. TaskmasterJack - 18/09/2009 05:09:59 PM 1237 Views
Oh, it's a job. jh - 18/09/2009 07:35:32 PM 1063 Views
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