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Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... Camilla Send a noteboard - 20/10/2010 10:20:28 PM
Slughorn...while he is the kind of person I detest in real life I find Slughorn oddly charming even when he is quite clearly only out for himself. I think he is the one who gives Harry the most information about Lily he's ever had. Well, until book 7, but definitely up to this point. Maybe I like Slughorn because he is clever. He is quick thinking and demonstrates it here in more than one way. Maybe I find it understandable that he would want to lay low, just not noble like most of our heroes in the series are. The musing can continue later I suppose.

He really incarnates the spirit of Slytherin, in a way. Ambitious, manipulative, preferring to pull the strings from the shadows instead of taking risks in the limelight. But unlike nearly everybody else in Slytherin (which is a big mistake on Rowling's part imho, but we'll get to that in due time, end of book seven), he's not on the evil side. He evidently has some remains of prejudice against Muggleborns, but isn't really set against them - kind of like how older people back in the day had this slightly dubious yet not really malevolently racist view of black people.

What's remarkable is that he has been on the run for a year, he says. So he must have expected Voldemort would try to recruit him long before Voldemort gave up his secrecy... interesting.


That is a very good point. So he must have taken on Dumbledore's warnings as soon as he made them.

Dumbledore...I feel a little conflicted about his dealing with Slughorn. We are clearly witnessing Dumbledore at his most manipulative, but I don't know what else he is to have done. He needs Slughorn close for a variety of reasons and the decision is ultimately left to Slughorn...I don't know. I like him a lot better in his broom closet conversation with Harry.

Manipulative isn't necessarily evil. Dumbledore plays dirty, perhaps, but Slughorn is old and wise enough to know he's being played, and takes the bait anyway. The choice is his. So I don't think Dumbledore is to blame here.


Agreed.

I wind up feeling sorry for Fleur. She's trying really hard. I think I feel sorry for her because I see some of myself in her actions. She tries really hard and then she puts her foot in her mouth. Like when she says there is nothing really to do if you don't like cooking. Totally true, and there is no way Mrs Weasley is sharing that responsibility, but still not the right thing to say here.

I don't know about trying really hard. The female Weasleys (which might as well include Hermione) are too hard on her, yes, but it's not as if she's entirely innocent in the matter. Fleur *is* arrogant, but then she has every reason to be, and she has a good heart. I imagine her attitude towards Bill's family isn't meant to be as rude as it ends up coming across, but she probably could have done more effort if she had bothered.

I'm not sure if we're really meant to infer here that Mrs. Weasley, Ginny and Hermione are really wrong with their initial attitude. There will be that reconciliation at the end of the book, but that isn't really presented as them being proven wrong, more as Fleur showing an unexpected side. Which isn't actually unexpected to the readers which remember her from book four. But yes, Harry is the one who has the best and most justified attitude towards her (no wonder, he's the one who knows her best apart from Bill).

Narcissa. I take it back, she is awful. Whatever devotion to her son she expresses she is clearly in line with at least some of Voldemort's aims with her reaction to Hermione. I'm thinking Draco never really stood a chance to be a decent human being.

She's a bigot, yes, certainly. But personally I'm not losing all sympathy for her here. Snape's oath seems to have lessened her worries about Draco greatly, but she still must be fearing for him, while he is clearly still quite confident at this point about it, and trying to escape her protectiveness. Someone as proud as Narcissa is always going to show her worst side in a confrontation like that one, she has a reputation to uphold, and of course Harry does hit her rather hard with the Lucius comments, probably harder than he realizes because he doesn't know about her fears Voldemort might kill or otherwise punish Lucius for his failure.


Good point.

I love our introduction to Fred and George's shop. They really are good businessmen and talented wizards even though we've been led to believe in the early books that they were screw ups.

It's interesting that Molly never brings up the matter of Harry having given them the initial loan, which Ron supposedly told her in a letter during book five. And she seems to have come to terms with it. It is an awesome scene ("Mr. Weasley and Mr. Weasley" is great), but I can't agree we've been led to believe that they were screw ups. Every time we've seen them, or very nearly, they were confident, capable and in control of the situation.


I had forgotten she knew. Are you sure he told her?
And I agree about the twins.

Draco. Every time I read this chapter I'm reminded of how we've been so misled. Harry is right about Draco for the entire book. He gets the specifics wrong sometimes, but he knows this trip is important and doesn't let it go. Harry has been wrong so many times we dismiss it like everyone in the book does but he is so, so very right.

Yeah, Harry is like a broken clock that way. ;)


Yes.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
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The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book Six, Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince - 18/10/2010 06:12:40 PM 2629 Views
General comments on the book. - 18/10/2010 06:14:10 PM 1503 Views
I am enjoying this a lot more than I thought I would. - 22/10/2010 07:25:17 PM 1627 Views
Yes, I'm loving that I can read in English again. - 22/10/2010 10:10:32 PM 1735 Views
Me too - 01/11/2010 02:11:28 PM 1498 Views
Suggestions. - 18/10/2010 06:18:46 PM 1545 Views
Re: Suggestions. - 20/10/2010 03:20:18 PM 1687 Views
*cough* - 09/11/2010 09:24:21 AM 1429 Views
Oh yes. I'm being distracted by Towers of Midnight. *NM* - 09/11/2010 02:11:22 PM 893 Views
Shocking. *NM* - 09/11/2010 02:13:43 PM 835 Views
Are we having a break right now? - 12/11/2010 06:48:10 PM 1590 Views
Re: Are we having a break right now? - 12/11/2010 10:05:30 PM 1834 Views
Chapters 1-3: The Other Minister, Spinner's End, Will and Won't. - 18/10/2010 06:21:55 PM 1765 Views
Characters: The three Ministers, Snape, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Dumbledore, the Dursleys. - 18/10/2010 06:25:12 PM 1743 Views
Re: Characters: The three Ministers, Snape, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Dumbledore, the Dursleys. - 18/10/2010 06:55:06 PM 1770 Views
(minor book seven spoilers) - 19/10/2010 11:27:53 AM 1728 Views
Re: (minor book seven spoilers) - 19/10/2010 05:26:50 PM 1527 Views
*spoilers for book 7* an assortment of characters - 19/10/2010 01:01:35 AM 1722 Views
Re: *spoilers for book 7* an assortment of characters - 19/10/2010 11:39:44 AM 1526 Views
Re: *spoilers for book 7* an assortment of characters - 19/10/2010 11:48:45 AM 1818 Views
I rather enjoyed the new characters. - 22/10/2010 07:30:03 PM 1499 Views
Re: I rather enjoyed the new characters. - 22/10/2010 08:33:44 PM 1615 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 18/10/2010 06:28:16 PM 748 Views
Dumbledore-centered. - 19/10/2010 01:03:05 AM 1631 Views
Re: Dumbledore-centered. - 22/10/2010 07:31:56 PM 1608 Views
Re: Dumbledore-centered. - 22/10/2010 07:33:34 PM 1584 Views
Chapters 4-6: Horace Slughorn, An Excess of Phlegm, Draco's Detour. *NM* - 20/10/2010 03:44:39 PM 900 Views
Characters: Slughorn, Fleur, the Trio, Draco and Narcissa Malfoy,... - 20/10/2010 03:46:47 PM 1672 Views
Re: Characters: Slughorn, Fleur, the Trio, Draco and Narcissa Malfoy,... - 20/10/2010 05:27:26 PM 1667 Views
(Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... - 20/10/2010 09:25:20 PM 1717 Views
Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... - 20/10/2010 09:46:08 PM 1633 Views
Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... - 20/10/2010 11:20:28 PM 1516 Views
Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... - 21/10/2010 12:04:23 AM 1248 Views
Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... - 20/10/2010 10:20:28 PM 1610 Views
Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur... - 20/10/2010 11:23:38 PM 1510 Views
Re: Characters: Slughorn, Fleur, the Trio, Draco and Narcissa Malfoy,... - 20/10/2010 10:15:58 PM 1653 Views
On Ron's reaction to Fleur... - 20/10/2010 11:30:48 PM 1583 Views
Re: On Ron's reaction to Fleur... - 20/10/2010 11:58:45 PM 1643 Views
Fleur - 23/10/2010 05:11:08 PM 1487 Views
Dumbledore, Slughorn, Tonks, Mr & Mrs Weasley, Hermione, Narcissa and the twins. - 20/10/2010 09:23:04 PM 1537 Views
Characters. - 25/10/2010 03:10:35 AM 1462 Views
Plotting and writing. - 20/10/2010 03:47:55 PM 1593 Views
*minor spoilers for book 7* - 20/10/2010 09:23:44 PM 1638 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 20/10/2010 03:48:07 PM 741 Views
Dumbledore's Stephen Fry moment... or maybe that's just me. - 22/10/2010 07:35:59 PM 1430 Views
It's not just you - 22/10/2010 08:34:25 PM 1431 Views
Chapters 7-9: Slug Club, Snape Victorious, The Half-Blood Prince *NM* - 22/10/2010 07:23:03 PM 889 Views
Characters *NM* - 22/10/2010 07:23:24 PM 837 Views
Harry, Romilda, Malfoy (in luuuve), Snape, Lavender Brown, McGonagall, Hermione and Slughorn. - 22/10/2010 07:26:19 PM 1676 Views
Thoughts about your thoughts. - 23/10/2010 05:28:10 PM 1430 Views
Re: Thoughts about your thoughts. - 24/10/2010 09:18:37 AM 1440 Views
More characters. - 25/10/2010 03:21:33 AM 1434 Views
Re: More characters. - 25/10/2010 10:27:33 AM 1430 Views
Love is in the air, evidently. - 22/10/2010 07:54:35 PM 1609 Views
Re: Love is in the air, evidently. - 22/10/2010 09:04:24 PM 1561 Views
Re: Love is in the air, evidently. - 22/10/2010 09:54:46 PM 1464 Views
Slytherin had been in need of new blood for a long time. (And assorted other comments.) - 22/10/2010 10:34:49 PM 1635 Views
Neville. - 23/10/2010 05:30:39 PM 1530 Views
Re: Neville. - 08/11/2010 02:35:57 PM 1609 Views
NEWT Potions - 24/10/2010 03:24:42 AM 1609 Views
Re: Characters - 24/10/2010 03:41:30 AM 1666 Views
Re: Characters - 25/10/2010 10:44:00 AM 1498 Views
Plotting and writing. *NM* - 22/10/2010 07:23:37 PM 838 Views
Dumbledore, patronuses and the DADA job. - 22/10/2010 07:27:23 PM 1560 Views
Malfoy and the DADA job. - 22/10/2010 10:51:03 PM 1469 Views
Re: Malfoy and the DADA job. - 25/10/2010 11:31:57 AM 1477 Views
Re: Dumbledore, patronuses and the DADA job. - 23/10/2010 05:32:27 PM 1481 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 22/10/2010 07:23:50 PM 855 Views
I believe in Wrackspurts, too. And some questions. - 22/10/2010 07:28:04 PM 1433 Views
Re: I believe in Wrackspurts, too. And some questions. - 23/10/2010 05:33:27 PM 1548 Views
Re: I believe in Wrackspurts, too. And some questions. - 25/10/2010 03:06:43 AM 1543 Views
Chapters 10-12: The House of Gaunt, Hermione's Helping Hand, Silver and Opals. *NM* - 25/10/2010 05:00:02 PM 893 Views
Characters: The Gaunts, the Trio, Hagrid, and many more. *NM* - 25/10/2010 05:02:07 PM 866 Views
Harry's continued insistence about Malfoy really irritates me (even though he's right). - 25/10/2010 06:15:23 PM 1695 Views
*lol* - 25/10/2010 06:39:19 PM 1571 Views
I don't hide from my faults. - 25/10/2010 08:01:39 PM 1408 Views
Re: I don't hide from my faults. - 28/10/2010 04:59:54 AM 1573 Views
Re: *lol* - 26/10/2010 09:50:09 AM 1556 Views
~geeky moment~ - 26/10/2010 03:14:52 PM 1466 Views
Re: ~geeky moment~ - 26/10/2010 09:49:12 PM 1424 Views
Trelawny, Ogden, Gaunt, Ron, Hermione, Ron and Harry - 25/10/2010 10:23:55 PM 1505 Views
Re: Trelawny, Ogden, Gaunt, Ron, Hermione, Ron and Harry - 26/10/2010 11:56:59 PM 1589 Views
Re: Trelawny, Ogden, Gaunt, Ron, Hermione, Ron and Harry - 27/10/2010 08:14:42 AM 1603 Views
Plotting and writing. - 25/10/2010 05:03:16 PM 1578 Views
Amazing amounts of accurate guesswork here, in hindsight. - 25/10/2010 05:37:28 PM 1610 Views
Re: Amazing amounts of accurate guesswork here, in hindsight. - 26/10/2010 09:46:47 AM 1507 Views
The smuggling and Trelawney's rambling. - 27/10/2010 12:05:48 AM 1553 Views
Re: The smuggling and Trelawney's rambling. - 27/10/2010 08:10:46 AM 1467 Views
Things - 25/10/2010 10:24:19 PM 1584 Views
Re: Things - 27/10/2010 12:01:17 AM 1595 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 25/10/2010 05:03:32 PM 687 Views
Dumbledore still sounds like Stephen Fry. And reflections on the nature of Potions class. - 25/10/2010 05:11:24 PM 1406 Views
It's like baking, I think. - 25/10/2010 05:32:42 PM 1562 Views
Good analogy - 25/10/2010 05:52:38 PM 1402 Views
Yes, exactly like baking - and advanced baking involves experimenting, substituting, improvising. - 25/10/2010 06:42:42 PM 1597 Views
But not at high school. - 25/10/2010 07:57:44 PM 1514 Views
Also - 04/11/2010 09:29:47 AM 1464 Views
Also, Parseltongue - is Harry that thick, or is it a magic thing? - 25/10/2010 05:18:41 PM 1530 Views
I think it's a magic thing. - 25/10/2010 05:34:09 PM 1523 Views
It can be learned actually. Dumbledore implies he knows it and Ron uses it in book 7 - 25/10/2010 05:55:28 PM 1483 Views
Huh. I completely missed that. Good thing we're doing a reread. - 25/10/2010 05:57:38 PM 1483 Views
Speaking of Dumbledore and Parseltongue. - 28/10/2010 05:03:10 AM 1756 Views
parseltongue - 25/10/2010 10:24:46 PM 1630 Views
Interesting how many of our remarks are along similar lines. *NM* - 25/10/2010 10:27:30 PM 720 Views
Indeed - 26/10/2010 09:20:43 AM 1537 Views
Chapters 13-15: The Secret Riddle, Felix Felicis, The Unbreakable Vow *NM* - 27/10/2010 04:16:28 PM 858 Views
Characters: The Trio, Ginny, Tom Riddle, Draco,... *NM* - 27/10/2010 04:17:12 PM 840 Views
Dumbledore, Voldemort, Ron & Hermione, Harry, Ginny, Luna - 27/10/2010 10:31:39 PM 1504 Views
My take on Ginny is rather different, I must say... at least this time around. - 29/10/2010 01:47:20 PM 1472 Views
Girls. - 29/10/2010 05:54:25 PM 1510 Views
Draco: Not as confident as he appears, surely. - 29/10/2010 02:02:01 PM 1669 Views
Re: Draco: Not as confident as he appears, surely. - 29/10/2010 09:01:56 PM 1648 Views
Plotting and writing. *NM* - 27/10/2010 04:17:26 PM 656 Views
plot and writing. - 27/10/2010 10:30:14 PM 1542 Views
Re: plot and writing. - 28/10/2010 05:07:03 AM 1673 Views
Draco can dissemble rather well, just like his parents. - 29/10/2010 02:08:35 PM 1550 Views
Re: Draco can dissemble rather well, just like his parents. - 29/10/2010 09:00:36 PM 1565 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 27/10/2010 04:17:42 PM 700 Views
Re: Anything else? - 27/10/2010 10:30:55 PM 1665 Views
Re: Anything else? - 28/10/2010 04:56:10 AM 1619 Views
Harry comments on that when in Snape's memories in book five. - 28/10/2010 10:42:08 AM 1460 Views
I wonder if that's actually true, though. - 28/10/2010 10:39:20 AM 1647 Views
Re: I wonder if that's actually true, though. - 28/10/2010 10:44:22 AM 1523 Views
It's more than that, though. - 28/10/2010 10:55:49 AM 1581 Views
Re: It's more than that, though. - 28/10/2010 11:48:19 AM 1400 Views
Chapters 16-18: A Very Frosty Christmas, A Sluggish Memory, Birthday Surprises *NM* - 29/10/2010 05:40:39 PM 816 Views
Characters: The Trio, Fleur, Scrimgeour, Percy, Remus, Slughorn,... *NM* - 29/10/2010 05:43:02 PM 906 Views
Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 29/10/2010 08:51:58 PM 1665 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 29/10/2010 11:24:02 PM 1478 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 29/10/2010 11:51:06 PM 1491 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 31/10/2010 09:14:46 PM 1720 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 31/10/2010 09:07:19 PM 1586 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 02/11/2010 06:23:04 PM 1553 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 02/11/2010 07:20:26 PM 1243 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour - 04/11/2010 04:03:02 AM 1487 Views
And - 04/11/2010 10:46:37 AM 1496 Views
Plotting and writing. - 29/10/2010 05:43:49 PM 1433 Views
Re: Plotting and writing. - 29/10/2010 08:52:34 PM 1569 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 29/10/2010 05:44:04 PM 719 Views
My comments on Potions class were heeded! Excellent. - 29/10/2010 11:28:43 PM 1500 Views
Re: My comments on Potions class were heeded! Excellent. - 29/10/2010 11:52:12 PM 1581 Views
Chapters 19-21: Elf Tails, Lord Voldemort's Requests, The Unknowable Room *NM* - 01/11/2010 02:00:22 PM 631 Views
Characters: The Trio, the elves, Draco, Dumbledore,... *NM* - 01/11/2010 02:00:56 PM 940 Views
the twins, Hermione, Ron, Luna, Voldemort, Draco and Tonks - 01/11/2010 02:08:32 PM 1391 Views
Re: the twins, Hermione, Ron, Luna, Voldemort, Draco and Tonks - 01/11/2010 05:10:11 PM 1640 Views
Re: the twins, Hermione, Ron, Luna, Voldemort, Draco and Tonks - 01/11/2010 05:16:30 PM 1719 Views
Plotting and writing. *NM* - 01/11/2010 02:01:13 PM 725 Views
Dumbledore, little girls and the house-elf issue again. - 01/11/2010 02:09:35 PM 1711 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 01/11/2010 02:01:27 PM 743 Views
Chapters 22-24: After the Burial, Horcruxes, Sectumsempra - 03/11/2010 09:50:17 PM 1801 Views
Characters. *NM* - 03/11/2010 09:50:33 PM 863 Views
Malfoy, Ron & Hermione, Slughorn, Voldemort, Snape and Ginny. - 04/11/2010 12:12:57 AM 1569 Views
Draco, Slughorn, Snape, the romance. - 04/11/2010 02:02:04 PM 1574 Views
Re: Draco, Slughorn, Snape, the romance. - 04/11/2010 02:16:17 PM 1592 Views
Plotting and writing. *NM* - 03/11/2010 09:50:50 PM 751 Views
Harry wrong again, house elves, horcruxes, free will, well hidden clues and some irony *DH spoiler* - 03/11/2010 10:35:20 PM 1521 Views
Re: Stuff. - 04/11/2010 04:28:04 AM 1590 Views
Re: Stuff. *spoilers for book 7* - 04/11/2010 09:10:19 AM 1586 Views
This "we'll see in book seven" thing is getting old, but still that's what I have to say here... - 04/11/2010 01:23:01 PM 1427 Views
Yes, I think you are right - 04/11/2010 01:24:41 PM 1583 Views
Well, I'm back. Some comments inside. *DH Spoilers* - 08/11/2010 02:28:11 PM 1559 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 03/11/2010 09:51:04 PM 740 Views
Chapters 25-27: The Seer Overheard, The Cave, The Lightning-Struck Tower - 05/11/2010 05:37:42 PM 1414 Views
Plotting and writing. - 05/11/2010 05:39:27 PM 1252 Views
*spoilers for book 7* - 05/11/2010 07:55:07 PM 1465 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 05/11/2010 05:39:43 PM 763 Views
I like how good magic is not flashy. Also, a Tolkien thing - 05/11/2010 07:55:27 PM 1505 Views
I didn't take the comparison as far, but the gate thing did remind me of Moria, yes. (DH spoilers) - 05/11/2010 10:03:16 PM 1733 Views
yes - 05/11/2010 10:06:43 PM 1510 Views
Chapters 28-30: Flight of the Prince, The Phoenix Lament, The White Tomb. *NM* - 09/11/2010 02:13:12 PM 869 Views
Characters. *NM* - 09/11/2010 02:13:25 PM 701 Views
Plotting and writing. *NM* - 09/11/2010 02:13:40 PM 835 Views
Spoilers. - 09/11/2010 02:26:38 PM 1444 Views
Re: Spoilers. - 09/11/2010 04:49:06 PM 1486 Views
I'm assuming not even the Ministry knows 100% what she did. - 13/11/2010 12:26:14 AM 1594 Views
Very true. - 15/11/2010 01:48:36 PM 1585 Views
Not much, no, but there's one fairly crucial mention. - 15/11/2010 04:37:23 PM 1545 Views
Re: Spoilers. - 13/11/2010 12:22:22 AM 1696 Views
Re: Spoilers. - 13/11/2010 09:38:09 AM 1832 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 09/11/2010 02:13:53 PM 714 Views
We did the Harry Potter marathon thing on Sunday - 09/11/2010 02:28:08 PM 1565 Views
I vaguely remember something of the sort, yes. - 09/11/2010 02:57:56 PM 1755 Views
Re: I vaguely remember something of the sort, yes. - 09/11/2010 02:58:56 PM 1452 Views
This is definitely the most painfully altered of the movies. - 09/11/2010 04:34:33 PM 1577 Views
Re: This is definitely the most painfully altered of the movies. - 09/11/2010 04:36:29 PM 1542 Views
Very true. - 09/11/2010 04:40:24 PM 1798 Views
Re: Very true. - 09/11/2010 04:43:45 PM 2032 Views
Agreed. - 09/11/2010 04:53:46 PM 1578 Views
Re: Agreed. - 09/11/2010 04:58:59 PM 1678 Views

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