Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur...
Seriana Sedai Send a noteboard - 20/10/2010 09:46:08 PM
Slughorn...while he is the kind of person I detest in real life I find Slughorn oddly charming even when he is quite clearly only out for himself. I think he is the one who gives Harry the most information about Lily he's ever had. Well, until book 7, but definitely up to this point. Maybe I like Slughorn because he is clever. He is quick thinking and demonstrates it here in more than one way. Maybe I find it understandable that he would want to lay low, just not noble like most of our heroes in the series are. The musing can continue later I suppose.
He really incarnates the spirit of Slytherin, in a way. Ambitious, manipulative, preferring to pull the strings from the shadows instead of taking risks in the limelight. But unlike nearly everybody else in Slytherin (which is a big mistake on Rowling's part imho, but we'll get to that in due time, end of book seven), he's not on the evil side. He evidently has some remains of prejudice against Muggleborns, but isn't really set against them - kind of like how older people back in the day had this slightly dubious yet not really malevolently racist view of black people.
I was trying to think of a way to say the same thing, the not malevolently racist bit, but couldn't come up with anything. It's like a general attitude he has but he doesn't hold to it when someone is gifted like Lily or Dirk Creswell. I find it odd.
What's remarkable is that he has been on the run for a year, he says. So he must have expected Voldemort would try to recruit him long before Voldemort gave up his secrecy... interesting.
Dumbledore refers to his "considerable talents" and I think Slughorn is aware that he may be useful to Voldemort. Do you think this is arrogance on Slughorn's part or an astute observation and reaction?
Dumbledore...I feel a little conflicted about his dealing with Slughorn. We are clearly witnessing Dumbledore at his most manipulative, but I don't know what else he is to have done. He needs Slughorn close for a variety of reasons and the decision is ultimately left to Slughorn...I don't know. I like him a lot better in his broom closet conversation with Harry.
Manipulative isn't necessarily evil. Dumbledore plays dirty, perhaps, but Slughorn is old and wise enough to know he's being played, and takes the bait anyway. The choice is his. So I don't think Dumbledore is to blame here.
That's kind of how I feel about it ultimately, that Slughorn knows he's being played, but it still doesn't sit nicely with me. He does refer to Harry's presence by saying "Don't think I don't know why he brought you" or something similar. I'm ultimately okay with it, but not 100%
I wind up feeling sorry for Fleur. She's trying really hard. I think I feel sorry for her because I see some of myself in her actions. She tries really hard and then she puts her foot in her mouth. Like when she says there is nothing really to do if you don't like cooking. Totally true, and there is no way Mrs Weasley is sharing that responsibility, but still not the right thing to say here.
I don't know about trying really hard. The female Weasleys (which might as well include Hermione) are too hard on her, yes, but it's not as if she's entirely innocent in the matter. Fleur *is* arrogant, but then she has every reason to be, and she has a good heart. I imagine her attitude towards Bill's family isn't meant to be as rude as it ends up coming across, but she probably could have done more effort if she had bothered.
I'm not sure if we're really meant to infer here that Mrs. Weasley, Ginny and Hermione are really wrong with their initial attitude. There will be that reconciliation at the end of the book, but that isn't really presented as them being proven wrong, more as Fleur showing an unexpected side. Which isn't actually unexpected to the readers which remember her from book four. But yes, Harry is the one who has the best and most justified attitude towards her (no wonder, he's the one who knows her best apart from Bill).
See, now I adore Ginny, but I think she's really unfair. I think Fleur is trying in the beginning and then as she gets the attitude she stops trying as hard (the Christmas radio broadcast comes to mind, hardly her most endearing chapter). I never understood why everyone was so shocked that she still wants to marry Bill by the end, if anything I'd think she'd want to call it off before to get away from a family that doesn't want her.
Narcissa. I take it back, she is awful. Whatever devotion to her son she expresses she is clearly in line with at least some of Voldemort's aims with her reaction to Hermione. I'm thinking Draco never really stood a chance to be a decent human being.
She's a bigot, yes, certainly. But personally I'm not losing all sympathy for her here. Snape's oath seems to have lessened her worries about Draco greatly, but she still must be fearing for him, while he is clearly still quite confident at this point about it, and trying to escape her protectiveness. Someone as proud as Narcissa is always going to show her worst side in a confrontation like that one, she has a reputation to uphold, and of course Harry does hit her rather hard with the Lucius comments, probably harder than he realizes because he doesn't know about her fears Voldemort might kill or otherwise punish Lucius for his failure.
I felt badly for her briefly after the Lucius remark, until she hits back just as hard about Harry being reunited with Sirius.
I love our introduction to Fred and George's shop. They really are good businessmen and talented wizards even though we've been led to believe in the early books that they were screw ups.
It's interesting that Molly never brings up the matter of Harry having given them the initial loan, which Ron supposedly told her in a letter during book five. And she seems to have come to terms with it. It is an awesome scene ("Mr. Weasley and Mr. Weasley" is great), but I can't agree we've been led to believe that they were screw ups. Every time we've seen them, or very nearly, they were confident, capable and in control of the situation.
I didn't phrase that as well as I would have liked...I'll blame a lack of coffee. I meant how Mrs. Weasley has always wanted them to be more like Percy and being disappointed with their behavior. It provides a nice counterpoint to this to see them be successful and later showing their mother how much they appreciate her. I think they are great sons.
Draco. Every time I read this chapter I'm reminded of how we've been so misled. Harry is right about Draco for the entire book. He gets the specifics wrong sometimes, but he knows this trip is important and doesn't let it go. Harry has been wrong so many times we dismiss it like everyone in the book does but he is so, so very right.
Yeah, Harry is like a broken clock that way.
That's exactly it! He's right in the next book too about something big...so that's the second time a day, right?
The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book Six, Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince
18/10/2010 06:12:40 PM
- 2629 Views
General comments on the book.
18/10/2010 06:14:10 PM
- 1503 Views
Suggestions.
18/10/2010 06:18:46 PM
- 1545 Views
*cough*
09/11/2010 09:24:21 AM
- 1429 Views
Chapters 1-3: The Other Minister, Spinner's End, Will and Won't.
18/10/2010 06:21:55 PM
- 1765 Views
Characters: The three Ministers, Snape, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Dumbledore, the Dursleys.
18/10/2010 06:25:12 PM
- 1744 Views
Re: Characters: The three Ministers, Snape, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Dumbledore, the Dursleys.
18/10/2010 06:55:06 PM
- 1770 Views
Re: Characters: The three Ministers, Snape, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Dumbledore, the Dursleys.
19/10/2010 01:07:59 AM
- 1778 Views
*spoilers for book 7* an assortment of characters
19/10/2010 01:01:35 AM
- 1723 Views
Plotting and writing.
18/10/2010 06:27:40 PM
- 1267 Views
*spoilers for book 7* focalisation and why I'l accept it this time, the power/powerless issue &stuff
19/10/2010 01:02:53 AM
- 1527 Views
Re: *spoilers for book 7* focalisation and why I'l accept it this time, the power/powerless issue
20/10/2010 02:58:54 PM
- 1495 Views
Re: *spoilers for book 7* focalisation and why I'l accept it this time, the power/powerless issue
20/10/2010 03:14:35 PM
- 1600 Views
Anything else? *NM*
18/10/2010 06:28:16 PM
- 748 Views
Dumbledore-centered.
19/10/2010 01:03:05 AM
- 1632 Views
Chapters 4-6: Horace Slughorn, An Excess of Phlegm, Draco's Detour. *NM*
20/10/2010 03:44:39 PM
- 901 Views
Characters: Slughorn, Fleur, the Trio, Draco and Narcissa Malfoy,...
20/10/2010 03:46:47 PM
- 1673 Views
Re: Characters: Slughorn, Fleur, the Trio, Draco and Narcissa Malfoy,...
20/10/2010 05:27:26 PM
- 1667 Views
(Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur...
20/10/2010 09:25:20 PM
- 1717 Views
Re: (Mostly) on Slughorn, Narcissa and Fleur...
20/10/2010 09:46:08 PM
- 1634 Views
Re: Characters: Slughorn, Fleur, the Trio, Draco and Narcissa Malfoy,...
20/10/2010 10:15:58 PM
- 1654 Views
Dumbledore, Slughorn, Tonks, Mr & Mrs Weasley, Hermione, Narcissa and the twins.
20/10/2010 09:23:04 PM
- 1537 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Slughorn, Tonks, Mr & Mrs Weasley, Hermione, Narcissa and the twins.
20/10/2010 09:56:28 PM
- 1523 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Slughorn, Tonks, Mr & Mrs Weasley, Hermione, Narcissa and the twins.
20/10/2010 10:17:23 PM
- 1691 Views
Anything else? *NM*
20/10/2010 03:48:07 PM
- 742 Views
So. Inferi are zombies aren't they? I just realised. Ick. Do they eat brains? *NM*
20/10/2010 09:24:03 PM
- 813 Views
I was kind of disappointed that Harry didn't remark on that fact. *NM*
22/10/2010 07:24:11 PM
- 849 Views
Chapters 7-9: Slug Club, Snape Victorious, The Half-Blood Prince *NM*
22/10/2010 07:23:03 PM
- 889 Views
Characters *NM*
22/10/2010 07:23:24 PM
- 838 Views
Harry, Romilda, Malfoy (in luuuve), Snape, Lavender Brown, McGonagall, Hermione and Slughorn.
22/10/2010 07:26:19 PM
- 1676 Views
Love is in the air, evidently.
22/10/2010 07:54:35 PM
- 1609 Views
Slytherin had been in need of new blood for a long time. (And assorted other comments.)
22/10/2010 10:34:49 PM
- 1635 Views
Re: Slytherin had been in need of new blood for a long time. (And assorted other comments.)
25/10/2010 10:33:04 AM
- 1344 Views
Plotting and writing. *NM*
22/10/2010 07:23:37 PM
- 839 Views
Dumbledore, patronuses and the DADA job.
22/10/2010 07:27:23 PM
- 1560 Views
Anything else? *NM*
22/10/2010 07:23:50 PM
- 856 Views
I believe in Wrackspurts, too. And some questions.
22/10/2010 07:28:04 PM
- 1434 Views
I'm not sure if I noticed this before, but awesome Tolkien shout-out there.
22/10/2010 09:58:27 PM
- 1507 Views
Re: I'm not sure if I noticed this before, but awesome Tolkien shout-out there.
23/10/2010 05:34:25 PM
- 1536 Views
Re: I'm not sure if I noticed this before, but awesome Tolkien shout-out there.
25/10/2010 10:35:43 AM
- 1575 Views
Chapters 10-12: The House of Gaunt, Hermione's Helping Hand, Silver and Opals. *NM*
25/10/2010 05:00:02 PM
- 894 Views
Characters: The Gaunts, the Trio, Hagrid, and many more. *NM*
25/10/2010 05:02:07 PM
- 867 Views
Harry's continued insistence about Malfoy really irritates me (even though he's right).
25/10/2010 06:15:23 PM
- 1696 Views
*lol*
25/10/2010 06:39:19 PM
- 1572 Views
Re: Harry's continued insistence about Malfoy really irritates me (even though he's right).
26/10/2010 09:23:09 AM
- 1481 Views
Trelawny, Ogden, Gaunt, Ron, Hermione, Ron and Harry
25/10/2010 10:23:55 PM
- 1505 Views
Plotting and writing.
25/10/2010 05:03:16 PM
- 1578 Views
Amazing amounts of accurate guesswork here, in hindsight.
25/10/2010 05:37:28 PM
- 1610 Views
Re: Amazing amounts of accurate guesswork here, in hindsight.
26/10/2010 09:46:47 AM
- 1507 Views
Anything else? *NM*
25/10/2010 05:03:32 PM
- 687 Views
Dumbledore still sounds like Stephen Fry. And reflections on the nature of Potions class.
25/10/2010 05:11:24 PM
- 1406 Views
It's like baking, I think.
25/10/2010 05:32:42 PM
- 1562 Views
Yes, exactly like baking - and advanced baking involves experimenting, substituting, improvising.
25/10/2010 06:42:42 PM
- 1598 Views
Also, Parseltongue - is Harry that thick, or is it a magic thing?
25/10/2010 05:18:41 PM
- 1530 Views
I think it's a magic thing.
25/10/2010 05:34:09 PM
- 1523 Views
It can be learned actually. Dumbledore implies he knows it and Ron uses it in book 7
25/10/2010 05:55:28 PM
- 1483 Views
Re: It can be learned actually. Dumbledore implies he knows it and Ron uses it in book 7
27/10/2010 04:31:45 PM
- 1523 Views
parseltongue
25/10/2010 10:24:46 PM
- 1630 Views
Interesting how many of our remarks are along similar lines. *NM*
25/10/2010 10:27:30 PM
- 721 Views
Chapters 13-15: The Secret Riddle, Felix Felicis, The Unbreakable Vow *NM*
27/10/2010 04:16:28 PM
- 859 Views
Characters: The Trio, Ginny, Tom Riddle, Draco,... *NM*
27/10/2010 04:17:12 PM
- 840 Views
Dumbledore, Voldemort, Ron & Hermione, Harry, Ginny, Luna
27/10/2010 10:31:39 PM
- 1504 Views
My take on Ginny is rather different, I must say... at least this time around.
29/10/2010 01:47:20 PM
- 1472 Views
Re: My take on Ginny is rather different, I must say... at least this time around.
29/10/2010 09:06:16 PM
- 1462 Views
Re: My take on Ginny is rather different, I must say... at least this time around.
29/10/2010 11:02:15 PM
- 1520 Views
Plotting and writing. *NM*
27/10/2010 04:17:26 PM
- 656 Views
plot and writing.
27/10/2010 10:30:14 PM
- 1542 Views
Anything else? *NM*
27/10/2010 04:17:42 PM
- 701 Views
Re: Anything else?
27/10/2010 10:30:55 PM
- 1665 Views
I wonder if that's actually true, though.
28/10/2010 10:39:20 AM
- 1647 Views
Re: I wonder if that's actually true, though.
28/10/2010 10:44:22 AM
- 1523 Views
Crabbe and Goyle show us what happens when you fail (most of? all of?) your OWLs.
29/10/2010 02:10:39 PM
- 1654 Views
Chapters 16-18: A Very Frosty Christmas, A Sluggish Memory, Birthday Surprises *NM*
29/10/2010 05:40:39 PM
- 816 Views
Characters: The Trio, Fleur, Scrimgeour, Percy, Remus, Slughorn,... *NM*
29/10/2010 05:43:02 PM
- 906 Views
Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour
29/10/2010 08:51:58 PM
- 1666 Views
Re: Mr Weasley, Lupin, Fleur, Harry and Scrimgeour
02/11/2010 06:23:04 PM
- 1553 Views
Anything else? *NM*
29/10/2010 05:44:04 PM
- 720 Views
Chapters 19-21: Elf Tails, Lord Voldemort's Requests, The Unknowable Room *NM*
01/11/2010 02:00:22 PM
- 631 Views
Characters: The Trio, the elves, Draco, Dumbledore,... *NM*
01/11/2010 02:00:56 PM
- 940 Views
the twins, Hermione, Ron, Luna, Voldemort, Draco and Tonks
01/11/2010 02:08:32 PM
- 1391 Views
Anything else? *NM*
01/11/2010 02:01:27 PM
- 743 Views
I want to hear the joke about the hag, the Healer and the Mimbulus mimbletonia. *NM*
01/11/2010 02:10:11 PM
- 1312 Views
Me too. And is a "hag" just an old witch, or something more specific?
03/11/2010 09:52:12 PM
- 1587 Views
Re: Me too. And is a "hag" just an old witch, or something more specific?
03/11/2010 09:54:05 PM
- 1866 Views
Re: Me too. And is a "hag" just an old witch, or something more specific?
08/11/2010 01:54:59 PM
- 1564 Views
Chapters 22-24: After the Burial, Horcruxes, Sectumsempra
03/11/2010 09:50:17 PM
- 1801 Views
Characters. *NM*
03/11/2010 09:50:33 PM
- 863 Views
Malfoy, Ron & Hermione, Slughorn, Voldemort, Snape and Ginny.
04/11/2010 12:12:57 AM
- 1569 Views
Plotting and writing. *NM*
03/11/2010 09:50:50 PM
- 751 Views
Harry wrong again, house elves, horcruxes, free will, well hidden clues and some irony *DH spoiler*
03/11/2010 10:35:20 PM
- 1521 Views
Re: Stuff.
04/11/2010 04:28:04 AM
- 1590 Views
Re: Stuff. *spoilers for book 7*
04/11/2010 09:10:19 AM
- 1587 Views
This "we'll see in book seven" thing is getting old, but still that's what I have to say here...
04/11/2010 01:23:01 PM
- 1427 Views
Chapters 25-27: The Seer Overheard, The Cave, The Lightning-Struck Tower
05/11/2010 05:37:42 PM
- 1414 Views
Characters: Harry, Trelawney, Dumbledore, Draco, Snape. And maybe some other people. *NM*
05/11/2010 05:38:19 PM
- 727 Views
Romilda, Snape, Trelawny, Draco, Dumbledore, Voldemort, Harry *spoilers book 7*
05/11/2010 07:34:01 PM
- 1512 Views
Anything else? *NM*
05/11/2010 05:39:43 PM
- 763 Views
I like how good magic is not flashy. Also, a Tolkien thing
05/11/2010 07:55:27 PM
- 1505 Views
I didn't take the comparison as far, but the gate thing did remind me of Moria, yes. (DH spoilers)
05/11/2010 10:03:16 PM
- 1734 Views
Chapters 28-30: Flight of the Prince, The Phoenix Lament, The White Tomb. *NM*
09/11/2010 02:13:12 PM
- 870 Views
Characters. *NM*
09/11/2010 02:13:25 PM
- 702 Views
Snape, Lupin, Hermione & Ron, the Order, Mrs Weasley & Fleur, Luna & Neville, Scrimgeour, Ginny *DH*
09/11/2010 02:20:01 PM
- 1431 Views
Plotting and writing. *NM*
09/11/2010 02:13:40 PM
- 835 Views
Spoilers.
09/11/2010 02:26:38 PM
- 1445 Views
Re: Spoilers.
09/11/2010 04:49:06 PM
- 1486 Views
I'm assuming not even the Ministry knows 100% what she did.
13/11/2010 12:26:14 AM
- 1594 Views
Very true.
15/11/2010 01:48:36 PM
- 1585 Views
Not much, no, but there's one fairly crucial mention.
15/11/2010 04:37:23 PM
- 1545 Views
With my keen attention to detail, I somehow missed that. Another good catch!
15/11/2010 09:36:37 PM
- 1715 Views
Anything else? *NM*
09/11/2010 02:13:53 PM
- 714 Views
We did the Harry Potter marathon thing on Sunday
09/11/2010 02:28:08 PM
- 1565 Views
This is definitely the most painfully altered of the movies.
09/11/2010 04:34:33 PM
- 1577 Views
Re: This is definitely the most painfully altered of the movies.
09/11/2010 04:36:29 PM
- 1542 Views
I just watched OotP again Saturday night... quite shocking there as well.
15/11/2010 04:45:48 PM
- 1663 Views
Re: I just watched OotP again Saturday night... quite shocking there as well.
15/11/2010 04:50:57 PM
- 1506 Views