Re: Hermione, Harry, Neville, Sirius, Dumbledore, Lupin
Legolas Send a noteboard - 09/10/2010 01:00:00 AM
Hermione: her different reactions to swimming brains and the Veil of death.
It is interesting how all of them show interest and allow themselves to be slowed down by at least one of the various strange objects they encounter... and tempting to read more into it.
Harry: his reaction to the Veil is quite interesting. He does not appear to fear it, but finds it beautiful, even feels a strong urge to walk through it. I suppose it is relevant in view of book 7 and his actions there. Perhaps it also illuminates his obsession with risking his life to save others. If he has an attraction to death. Although the fact that Ginny and Neville are apparently also attracted to it… I don't know what to make of that. I wonder how Voldemort reacts when faced with the Veil.
I think it's clear the criterium for hearing the voices is the same as for seeing Thestrals, but what makes Ginny so interested in it when Ron and Hermione aren't... I'm not sure.
If we're going to discuss his view on death, we should also mention two chapters later, when he is mentioned as being dying or sure he was dead twice, and thinks explicitly that death would not be so bad (admittedly, compared to excruciating pain, so he's not exactly thinking clearly).
I also like Harry's quick assessment of the situation (helped, obviously by very helpful comments from the Death Eaters, who clearly do not think they need to play cards in a clever way when playing with children). And he cleverly uses the "Voldemort is a half-blood" card. He really is better under pressure.
Definitely.
His reaction when Sirius is not there, and all through the fight with the Death Eaters is that if someone dies it will be his fault for having been tricked by Voldemort. And then Sirius dies. Sirius. It is too horrible.
But in a way less horrible than if someone of the Two Trios had died. They are his responsibility, he led them there, and they are only children besides. Sirius is an adult who came there of his own volition and went down fighting as he'd have wanted to.
Sirius dying is dark enough, but the books would have gone to an even darker place if, say, Neville had died here. Not to mention Ron or Hermione.
Neville: he is also fascinated by the Veil. And Harry notices his hand shake, I get the impression that it is implied that Harry thinks it is out of fear, but I am fairly convinced it is because Bellatrix is that close and he wants her dead (or, perhaps, preferably mad).
I'm not sure. After the build-up, Neville's performance during the fight is far from stellar - he needs this experience to become what he becomes at the grand finale of the final book, but right now he's not exactly a big help.
I also like the moment when he says that his Gran will kill him for breaking his father's old wand; obviously she will be proud that her grandson is out fighting Death Eaters, like his father did.
Indeed she will - a bit too proud, perhaps.
Sirius: the speed with which he duels with the Death Eater. It shows how much more the trio and the second trio have to learn. And this is Sirius, who has not had his life to practice, having been locked up pretty much since he became an adult. It is a good thing Harry had a bargaining chip.
Yeah, agreed, another indication like Dolochov's non-verbal spells that the Two Trios do have a fair bit to learn still. Though as for the duels, you have to wonder why DEs bother with all the lesser spells - and even the tapdancing one, what was that about? - when they can just use the AK and simplify things dramatically. Lucius Malfoy and some others might not have the guts to do that, agreed, but Bellatrix and Dolochov definitely do. Is it just a matter of style?
And then Sirius dies. It is so wrong. He was only just about to be cleared, just about to be able to be happy. There is some mercy in his dying in a fight, not being strangled in his sleep my Kreecher, but it is not really much of a consolation.
Yeah, the only consolation is that having one of the rescuers die - even Sirius - isn't as bad as one of the children.
Dumbledore: His entry is again terribly powerful. He is angry, and you know everything is going to be all right. And then Sirius dies. I'm sorry. I have to keep coming back to that. It is so central to everything. Dumbledore's power to make everything all right is gone in a flash.
And then he fails to protect Harry, too, who only forces Voldemort out through his emotions. Maybe Dumbledore could've saved the situation again otherwise, but he is unable to prevent it. This is definitely the point where the limits of Dumbledore's power become clear, and where Harry really seriously stakes out his claim to the leadership of the good side. In hindsight, anyway.
Yes, he proceeds to effortlessly duel with Voldemort while lecturing him on key philosophical points, and that is all very cool, and he is marvellous. But the reassurance of his presence is never there again in the same way. For me, at any rate.
No, agreed, it cannot be the same anymore.
The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book Five - The Order of the Phoenix
13/09/2010 09:14:51 PM
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Monday 13 September: chapters 1-3 - Dementors, owls and a daring rescue. *NM*
13/09/2010 09:18:29 PM
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New characters and characters old.
13/09/2010 09:20:39 PM
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Re: New characters and characters old.
13/09/2010 11:55:04 PM
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Going to try to be succinct here and not get into endless back-and-forths... we'll see.
14/09/2010 12:15:58 AM
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Re: Going to try to be succinct here and not get into endless back-and-forths... we'll see.
14/09/2010 09:00:37 AM
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News / Petunia / Snape / Tonks
14/09/2010 04:40:01 PM
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Having trouble with quotes?
14/09/2010 04:57:22 PM
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If you are having trouble with quotes, you can set it up so it always does the paragraphs thing.
14/09/2010 05:17:28 PM
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I know
*NM*
14/09/2010 05:19:49 PM
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It wasn't you I was talking to.
*NM*
14/09/2010 05:22:52 PM
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Then why did you reply to me?
14/09/2010 05:30:14 PM
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To subtly point out that if you were going to make that remark, you could also have given the tip.
14/09/2010 06:15:55 PM
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Thanks, that was driving me nuts and I had to actually get back to work...
14/09/2010 06:40:19 PM
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Re: Thanks, that was driving me nuts and I had to actually get back to work...
14/09/2010 07:25:07 PM
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You were just showing off with your reply weren't you? Segmenting the quotes like that.
14/09/2010 06:53:03 PM
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Re: You were just showing off with your reply weren't you? Segmenting the quotes like that.
14/09/2010 07:24:28 PM
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A question around that.
16/09/2010 07:02:11 PM
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Re: A question around that.
16/09/2010 07:04:37 PM
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Yeah, maybe my timing is off there. No biggie, in the grand scheme of things.
16/09/2010 07:07:33 PM
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After the end of OotP, it's widely known he's back.
16/09/2010 07:12:19 PM
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I think I remember now
16/09/2010 07:43:42 PM
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I was thinking there were some smaller attacks / break ins that got similar treatment here.
16/09/2010 08:30:57 PM
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Re: New characters and characters old.
14/09/2010 08:08:34 AM
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The Dursleys.
15/09/2010 01:23:18 AM
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Plotplotplot (plot makes a funny noise when you say it like that).
13/09/2010 09:22:27 PM
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Other stuff.
13/09/2010 09:22:53 PM
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two questions.
13/09/2010 11:49:28 PM
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Answers
14/09/2010 03:01:58 AM
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Surprisingly many hilarious little things for a book that's gonna be as dark as this one.
14/09/2010 10:11:54 AM
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That is why I love it so much.
14/09/2010 10:14:01 AM
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Re: That is why I love it so much.
14/09/2010 10:19:50 AM
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Re: That is why I love it so much.
14/09/2010 10:27:09 AM
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He's incredibly blind, our Harry.
19/09/2010 06:38:29 PM
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I don't find it annoying, really.
19/09/2010 07:27:11 PM
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Wednesday 15 September: chapters 4-6 *NM*
13/09/2010 09:25:46 PM
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Characters: still interesting? *NM*
15/09/2010 08:13:26 AM
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Yes
15/09/2010 11:12:36 AM
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You write your posts out in Word and then copypaste them? Why?
15/09/2010 11:43:29 AM
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No. I don't even have Word.
15/09/2010 11:52:02 AM
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Sirius and Sirius' mother.
16/09/2010 04:25:36 AM
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Plot: how's that coming along? *NM*
15/09/2010 08:13:45 AM
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tragically?
15/09/2010 11:12:10 AM
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Re: tragically?
15/09/2010 03:42:29 PM
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Re: tragically?
15/09/2010 03:47:06 PM
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Yes. And the one who will get the fantastic line at the end of the book. *NM*
15/09/2010 04:08:47 PM
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I have forgotten that
15/09/2010 04:10:57 PM
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Well, it may not be that fantastic, but it's pretty amusing.
15/09/2010 04:12:55 PM
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Oh I thought you were talking about the one where he tells the Minister
15/09/2010 10:03:57 PM
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Re: tragically?
16/09/2010 04:08:03 AM
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Other things: ? *NM*
15/09/2010 08:14:56 AM
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Percy and Rowling's handling of profanity.
16/09/2010 03:35:05 AM
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Re: Percy and Rowling's handling of profanity.
16/09/2010 03:48:50 AM
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Re: Percy and Rowling's handling of profanity.
16/09/2010 04:02:04 AM
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Friday 17 September: The Ministry of Magic, Harry's Hearing, and that thing with Mrs Weasley
13/09/2010 09:26:16 PM
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The plot thickens.
17/09/2010 12:05:57 PM
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A few thoughts
17/09/2010 04:21:25 PM
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Re: A few thoughts
17/09/2010 06:36:37 PM
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Re: A few thoughts
19/09/2010 05:51:24 AM
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Lots of things happening in here that come back up in future books
17/09/2010 04:41:02 PM
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Re: Lots of things happening in here that comes back up in future books
17/09/2010 06:31:44 PM
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Timing messed up again.
17/09/2010 07:10:31 PM
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Re: Timing messed up again.
17/09/2010 07:13:41 PM
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Well...
17/09/2010 08:18:07 PM
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Re: Well...
19/09/2010 02:14:01 AM
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It's like those old chip commercials. It's hard to just read one.
20/09/2010 01:13:20 AM
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Character development.
17/09/2010 12:06:52 PM
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Mrs. Weasley
17/09/2010 04:23:20 PM
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Agree here, but I can understand why she's cracking up a bit.
17/09/2010 04:46:30 PM
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Don't know if you noticed it, but the death of her brothers is actually mentioned here.
17/09/2010 04:56:01 PM
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That's a good catch. I remember reading it, but don't think I connected it back to the Weasleys.
17/09/2010 07:14:12 PM
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I don't know how I missed it.
19/09/2010 02:16:11 AM
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I believe we never get her maiden name in the series itself - it's from some family tree or the like
19/09/2010 04:25:13 PM
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Are you sure?
19/09/2010 05:14:14 PM
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No. I could be wrong. But I wouldn't know where to look for it, if so.
19/09/2010 07:29:18 PM
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According to the HP Wiki at Wikia, there should be a more explicit mention of it in book seven. *NM*
19/09/2010 07:34:10 PM
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Mr. Weasley
17/09/2010 04:54:49 PM
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He is lovely.
17/09/2010 06:22:27 PM
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His shifts between the two are handled nicely.
17/09/2010 07:19:38 PM
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Re: His shifts between the two are handled nicely.
17/09/2010 07:21:38 PM
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Re: His shifts between the two are handled nicely.
17/09/2010 08:29:06 PM
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It's cheesy. *NM*
17/09/2010 08:41:32 PM
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Yeah, kind of cheesy, but I still enjoyed it. Should we table this for the DH reread? *NM*
20/09/2010 01:21:33 AM
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Other things of note.
17/09/2010 12:07:33 PM
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Monday 20 September: chapters 10-12 ~ Back to school *NM*
13/09/2010 09:26:44 PM
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Characters: Luna, Umbridge and the Sorting Hat *NM*
20/09/2010 08:03:30 AM
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Draco, Ginny, Luna, Neville, Harry, Umbridge and McGonnagall
20/09/2010 03:44:01 PM
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I think McGonagall kind of fails there.
20/09/2010 04:58:01 PM
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Re: I think McGonagall kind of fails there.
20/09/2010 05:05:27 PM
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Maybe she doesn't realize all that, but really, how much effort does it take to be clear?
20/09/2010 05:43:57 PM
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Re: Maybe she doesn't realize all that, but really, how much effort does it take to be clear?
20/09/2010 06:18:35 PM
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Oh, I think it is.
20/09/2010 06:30:33 PM
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Weasley goodness.
22/09/2010 03:16:41 AM
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Plot: things you've noticed. *NM*
20/09/2010 08:04:13 AM
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Not much in these chapters
20/09/2010 03:45:55 PM
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Oh, there's more than that.
20/09/2010 04:43:28 PM
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I remembered now: Barty Crouch Junior.
20/09/2010 05:08:16 PM
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I did not get that from the passage
20/09/2010 05:19:45 PM
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Hmm.
20/09/2010 05:38:28 PM
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Re: Hmm.
20/09/2010 06:10:03 PM
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Oh yes: Assyria is a wizarding country.
22/09/2010 09:42:27 AM
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Yes
22/09/2010 09:50:47 AM
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Because that's the only modern meaning of "Assyrian".
22/09/2010 09:58:03 AM
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Re: Because that's the only modern meaning of "Assyrian".
22/09/2010 09:59:39 AM
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Who knows?
Don't think we've seen much discussion of religion in the wizarding world. *NM*
22/09/2010 10:02:30 AM
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On their broomsticks, obviously
*NM*
23/09/2010 02:27:06 PM
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In that part of the world I understand they use flying carpets, actually.
*NM*
23/09/2010 03:16:18 PM
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Wasn't there a mention of someone trying to smuggle flying carpets into England?
23/09/2010 06:17:58 PM
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Anything else? *NM*
20/09/2010 08:05:33 AM
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Thestrals & Hufflepuff
20/09/2010 03:50:34 PM
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Wednesday 22 September: chapters 13-15 ~ School gets interesting.
13/09/2010 09:27:09 PM
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Character development: how are our three main characters getting along?
22/09/2010 12:43:53 PM
- 1853 Views
Dumbledore, Umbridge, Hermione, Ron, Luna, Harry, Percy ad McGonnagall.
22/09/2010 12:49:12 PM
- 1996 Views
Some interesting developments, I thought.
22/09/2010 01:57:42 PM
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Re: Some interesting developments, I thought. Edited
22/09/2010 02:35:20 PM
- 1947 Views
Dumbledore, this really bugs me
23/09/2010 03:39:28 AM
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Plot progression, and continuing themes.
22/09/2010 12:44:34 PM
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Action and reaction
22/09/2010 12:50:35 PM
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Re: Action and reaction
22/09/2010 02:15:16 PM
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Any other comments?
22/09/2010 12:44:54 PM
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Friday 24 September: chapters 16-18 ~ Dumbledore's Army
13/09/2010 09:27:50 PM
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Le plot.
24/09/2010 05:06:34 PM
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Reaction -- the forming of the DA
24/09/2010 07:08:45 PM
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Re: Reaction -- the forming of the DA
27/09/2010 03:55:50 PM
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Re: Reaction -- the forming of the DA
27/09/2010 03:59:33 PM
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Anything else?
24/09/2010 05:07:10 PM
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Monday 27 September: chapters 19-21 ~ Quidditch, Hagrid and thestrals.
13/09/2010 09:28:27 PM
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Les Characters
27/09/2010 07:57:17 AM
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Ron, Umbridge, McGonagall, Hagrid, Cho, Hermione, Harry
27/09/2010 03:26:13 PM
- 2017 Views
Re: Ron, Umbridge, McGonagall, Hagrid, Cho, Hermione, Harry
27/09/2010 04:57:55 PM
- 1997 Views
Re: Ron, Umbridge, McGonagall, Hagrid, Cho, Hermione, Harry
27/09/2010 05:08:10 PM
- 1880 Views
Plot - are we happy with what's happening?
27/09/2010 07:58:33 AM
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Definitely some things of note!
27/09/2010 02:43:41 PM
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Re: Definitely some things of note!
27/09/2010 03:36:39 PM
- 2010 Views
Any other thoughts?
27/09/2010 07:59:14 AM
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Bigotry, the Sorting Hat and Giants
27/09/2010 03:28:10 PM
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Re: Bigotry, the Sorting Hat and Giants
27/09/2010 05:08:42 PM
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Re: Bigotry, the Sorting Hat and Giants
27/09/2010 05:21:20 PM
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Wednesday 29 September: chapters 22-24
13/09/2010 09:29:12 PM
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Characters and characterisation *NM*
29/09/2010 04:43:38 PM
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High emotions.
29/09/2010 05:11:07 PM
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Re: High emotions.
29/09/2010 08:21:46 PM
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Re: High emotions.
29/09/2010 09:51:14 PM
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Re: High emotions.
29/09/2010 10:06:43 PM
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Re: High emotions.
29/09/2010 10:28:58 PM
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Re: High emotions.
29/09/2010 09:18:42 PM
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Plotting and plot continuity *NM*
29/09/2010 04:44:32 PM
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Re: Plotting and plot continuity
29/09/2010 05:11:43 PM
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Re: Plotting and plot continuity
29/09/2010 09:17:02 PM
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Other things of note. *NM*
29/09/2010 04:44:51 PM
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Rowling is having fun once more, this time with St. Mungo's.
29/09/2010 09:19:53 PM
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Re: Rowling is having fun once more, this time with St. Mungo's.
29/09/2010 10:35:51 PM
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Re: Rowling is having fun once more, this time with St. Mungo's.
30/09/2010 03:42:21 AM
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Hermione is apparently smarter than J.K. Rowling. Or maybe just Harry. Hard to tell.
30/09/2010 03:47:22 AM
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The fact that she has Hermione use the right term points to a subtle distinction.
30/09/2010 03:06:07 PM
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Friday 1 October: chapters 25-27 - Sorry I'm late.
13/09/2010 09:29:58 PM
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The characters: development, actions, etc. *NM*
02/10/2010 11:25:09 AM
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Fudge, Hermione, Neville, Cho, Harry, Umbridge, the teachers, Snape, Dumbledore
02/10/2010 07:54:05 PM
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Re: Fudge, Hermione, Neville, Cho, Harry, Umbridge, the teachers, Snape, Dumbledore
03/10/2010 02:19:37 AM
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Re: Fudge, Hermione, Neville, Cho, Harry, Umbridge, the teachers, Snape, Dumbledore
03/10/2010 10:05:48 AM
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Re: Fudge, Hermione, Neville, Cho, Harry, Umbridge, the teachers, Snape, Dumbledore
04/10/2010 09:10:47 PM
- 2008 Views
Re: Fudge, Hermione, Neville, Cho, Harry, Umbridge, the teachers, Snape, Dumbledore
04/10/2010 09:18:42 PM
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Re: Fudge, Hermione, Neville, Cho, Harry, Umbridge, the teachers, Snape, Dumbledore
05/10/2010 01:06:54 AM
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Re: Fudge, Hermione, Neville, Cho, Harry, Umbridge, the teachers, Snape, Dumbledore
05/10/2010 09:02:36 AM
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Re: Fudge, Hermione, Neville, Cho, Harry, Umbridge, the teachers, Snape, Dumbledore
05/10/2010 10:39:30 PM
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Re: Fudge, Hermione, Neville, Cho, Harry, Umbridge, the teachers, Snape, Dumbledore
05/10/2010 10:50:27 PM
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Re: Fudge, Hermione, Neville, Cho, Harry, Umbridge, the teachers, Snape, Dumbledore
05/10/2010 11:13:36 PM
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Plot/action: getting exciting? *NM*
02/10/2010 11:25:48 AM
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Beginning of the end
02/10/2010 07:55:36 PM
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Re: Beginning of the end
05/10/2010 10:45:32 PM
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Other things. *NM*
02/10/2010 11:26:06 AM
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The way reactions are given, and an observation about occlumency.
02/10/2010 07:55:48 PM
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The least important of your points...
04/10/2010 08:18:04 PM
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Monday 4 October: chapters 28-30 - bad memories, dramatic exits, and large brothers.
13/09/2010 09:32:03 PM
- 1975 Views
Characters: James, Sirius, Lily, Snape, Umbridge, Fred, George, Hagrid, Grawp
04/10/2010 06:31:44 PM
- 2047 Views
The twins, the teachers, Cho, Snape, James Sirius, Wormtail, Lupin, Lily, Harry and McGonagall.
04/10/2010 07:40:26 PM
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Re: The twins, the teachers, Cho, Snape, James Sirius, Wormtail, Lupin, Lily, Harry and McGonagall.
05/10/2010 05:16:45 AM
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Re: The twins, the teachers, Cho, Snape, James Sirius, Wormtail, Lupin, Lily, Harry and McGonagall.
05/10/2010 09:19:28 AM
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Re: The twins, the teachers, Cho, Snape, James Sirius, Wormtail, Lupin, Lily, Harry and McGonagall.
05/10/2010 03:56:50 PM
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Re: The twins, the teachers, Cho, Snape, James Sirius, Wormtail, Lupin, Lily, Harry and McGonagall.
05/10/2010 11:09:16 PM
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Re: The twins, the teachers, Cho, Snape, James Sirius, Wormtail, Lupin, Lily, Harry and McGonagall.
05/10/2010 11:27:30 PM
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Plotting and themes.
04/10/2010 06:32:16 PM
- 1976 Views
family and bigotry
04/10/2010 07:41:22 PM
- 2010 Views
Anything else?
04/10/2010 06:32:43 PM
- 2004 Views
portaits
04/10/2010 07:41:49 PM
- 1800 Views
Wednesday 6 October: chapters 31-33 - OWLs, fights and other such hijinks.
13/09/2010 09:32:40 PM
- 1997 Views
Characters - so many to deal with.
06/10/2010 08:13:36 PM
- 1929 Views
Ron, Neville, Harry, Hermione, McGonagall, Professor Tofty, Snape, Umbridge and the second trio.
06/10/2010 08:34:55 PM
- 2057 Views
Re: Ron, Neville, Harry, Hermione, McGonagall, Professor Tofty, Snape, Umbridge and the second trio.
06/10/2010 09:30:18 PM
- 2017 Views
Re: Ron, Neville, Harry, Hermione, McGonagall, Professor Tofty, Snape, Umbridge and the second trio.
06/10/2010 09:46:38 PM
- 2021 Views
Plot! Theme and Action!
06/10/2010 08:14:21 PM
- 1934 Views
The trap is set
06/10/2010 08:36:03 PM
- 1948 Views
Friday 8 October: chapters 34-36 - The big fight and the big farewell.
13/09/2010 09:33:45 PM
- 2110 Views
Characters: Death Eaters, Order of the Phoenix, and the children.
08/10/2010 11:19:58 AM
- 2058 Views
Hermione, Harry, Neville, Sirius, Dumbledore, Lupin
08/10/2010 07:52:01 PM
- 1961 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Neville, Sirius, Dumbledore, Lupin
09/10/2010 01:00:00 AM
- 2171 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Neville, Sirius, Dumbledore, Lupin
09/10/2010 10:23:24 AM
- 1862 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Neville, Sirius, Dumbledore, Lupin
10/10/2010 03:40:46 AM
- 1831 Views
Action. And more action.
08/10/2010 11:20:49 AM
- 1969 Views
I'm wondering what would have happened...
09/10/2010 01:14:58 AM
- 1773 Views
Re: I'm wondering what would have happened...
09/10/2010 10:16:25 AM
- 1907 Views
Re: I'm wondering what would have happened...
10/10/2010 03:22:18 AM
- 2139 Views
Book 7 spoilers ( I know they are implied, but I'd feel bad if I didn't warn)
11/10/2010 12:51:06 AM
- 1984 Views
Re: Book 7 spoilers ( I know they are implied, but I'd feel bad if I didn't warn)
12/10/2010 02:48:53 AM
- 1933 Views
Monday 11 October: chapters 37-38 ~ The end of innocence?
13/09/2010 09:35:14 PM
- 2069 Views
How are our characters left?
11/10/2010 05:25:39 PM
- 2005 Views
Phineas, Dumbledore, Voldemort, Fudge, McGonagall, Harry, Ron and Moody
11/10/2010 11:50:16 PM
- 2010 Views
Any other thoughts?
11/10/2010 05:27:17 PM
- 1824 Views
General comments.
13/09/2010 09:36:13 PM
- 2020 Views
Suggestions for the re-read.
13/09/2010 09:36:56 PM
- 1954 Views
Your links don't work
14/09/2010 10:37:32 AM
- 1900 Views
Fixed. *NM*
14/09/2010 10:46:08 AM
- 1137 Views
And fixed the links in the other ones, too - don't bother searching for new posts, there aren't any. *NM*
14/09/2010 06:35:37 PM
- 1004 Views
Do we need to have another break?
27/09/2010 08:00:04 AM
- 1992 Views
But now I want to keep reading them. </whine>
29/09/2010 04:02:57 AM
- 1875 Views
Will probably just have a little break - i.e. wait till the following Monday to start.
03/10/2010 09:48:52 AM
- 1996 Views
Re: Will probably just have a little break - i.e. wait till the following Monday to start.
06/10/2010 12:01:09 AM
- 2158 Views