Re: Ron, Mrs Weasley, Madame Maxime, Wormtail, Voldemort, Quirrel
Camilla Send a noteboard - 27/08/2010 05:23:14 PM
Mrs Weasley: it is interesting that she points out to Amos Diggory that he should not listen to Rita Skeeter. I am still not entirely happy with this part of Mrs Weasley. Something doesn't quite fit. She cannot possibly be that oblivious to her hypocrisy.
Agreed with all of that - it made her sound like a raging hypocrite and that was a bit mean. I do wonder what Amos was going to retort...
Yes. Hmmm. I have no idea.
Madame Maxime: she is upset. That fits with the theory that she has now seen the value of Hagrid and that the roles of the two are reversed.
It does, doesn't it? There's no other reason why she would be crying that I can see. It seems a tad exaggerated, but then it's not likely either of them has really had much experience in romance before...
True. There really cannot be that many of them. For previously stated reasons that we will not get into again.
Wormtail: I don't really get it. Could what the good guys would do to him really be that bad compared to what Voldemort does? I suppose it comes down to whether you would rather be in deep depression or living with an insane sadist. I am fairly sure that if he had brought Voldemort to Dumbledore once he was … portable? it would have healed a lot of problems. Of course that would raise a lot of other moral issues, so maybe not. But still. Really. The man mocks him, taunts him, brings up his worst actions, cuts him (worse: makes him cut himself) and in thanks hurls him against a tomb stone. It does not seem like the better option.
I don't know how much he really thought it through... but he really seems to be afraid to do anything for himself, always needing a protector. Even when that protector is a sadistic brute. Voldemort talking about how Wormtail deserves his pain and all, that moves from spouse abuse to real sadism, as you said. And that Avada Kedavra... Wormtail's first ever, one would assume. He doesn't seem overly bothered by it, though, being more concerned with himself (of course after he loses his hand that's kind of understandable). But by Rowling's rules, we are given to understand that that's a big line to cross. One year earlier Harry stopped Remus and Sirius from killing him, now he kills an innocent person himself.
Yes. A question about wands, though. Voldemort and Wormtail clearly use the same wand, but I cannot really see how either one can have one. It would seem that it is Voldemort's wand, because the priori incantatem, if I recall correctly, is due to the wands being related. I find it hard to imagine Voldemort lending his wand to Wormtail. And how did they find it? I cannot remember that this is ever cleared up.
But Wormtail's first murder (if that is what it is) really does happen rather unceremoniously.
We are given indications of the traumas of his childhood, but as I pointed out in an earlier post, we have been (and will be) furnished with a whole lot of counterexamples to show us that that does not excuse him.
Indeed, as you added to yesterday's discussion, we see several children with equal or even worse traumas growing up to be far better humans. In fact his trauma wasn't even that bad, really... yes, he was raised in an orphanage, but by all accounts a mostly decent one.
Hmm. Yes. You are right. The orphanage probably isn't that bad. I was thinking more about the rejection by his father, but he would not have known that in the formative years, would he?
It is strange to hear him reveal his half-blood birth so easily. I am still not sure that Lucius and his lot are aware of it. Perhaps that is why he breaks off when they arrive. Although it is clearly a very important part of his identity.
He seems to be telling Harry things he really wouldn't tell anyone else. Perhaps because on some level he considers him a kindred soul, and an equal of sorts - though one in his power - whereas all his Death Eaters are just underlings. He even makes the comparison between them himself. For all that Bellatrix flatters herself into thinking he wants her as she does him, the truth is he takes none of his underlings seriously. Snape perhaps most of all, because Snape has the courage to stand up to him to some extent (such as here - within hours of these events, iirc, Snape will visit Voldemort and manage to convince him he had a good reason for not obeying slavishly).
Yes.
Quirrel: an interesting insight into him at this point. Was he not a willing host, then? It sounds like he was acting under compulsion rather than willing allegiance.
Did we think before that it was willing allegiance? I don't remember now... but yes, doesn't seem like Quirrel had much of a choice.
Hmm. Maybe it is made clear earlier on that Quirrel was not a volunteer. I think it is said somewhere that he happened across Voldemort in Albania.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
structured procrastinator
The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book Four Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire
16/08/2010 09:28:48 AM
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Chapters 1-3: A different beginning
16/08/2010 09:30:26 AM
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Early characters
16/08/2010 09:32:12 AM
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Re: Early characters
16/08/2010 11:02:23 AM
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Early plotting.
16/08/2010 09:32:52 AM
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Re: Early plotting.
16/08/2010 11:02:09 AM
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It's the things behind the scenes setting up the big plan (spoilers for this and later books)
16/08/2010 11:38:14 AM
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Re: It's the things behind the scenes setting up the big plan (spoilers for this and later books)
16/08/2010 11:47:16 AM
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Re: It's the things behind the scenes setting up the big plan (spoilers for this and later books)
16/08/2010 12:16:16 PM
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Re: It's the things behind the scenes setting up the big plan (spoilers for this and later books)
16/08/2010 12:36:30 PM
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Re: Early plotting.
17/08/2010 01:15:43 AM
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Any other comments/observations
16/08/2010 09:33:34 AM
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Mob mentality and British euroscepticism.
16/08/2010 10:37:10 AM
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people in groups and baffling violence. And the godawful recaps
16/08/2010 11:03:09 AM
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Yeah, I agree about the recaps, they're pointless at this point. *NM*
16/08/2010 11:17:37 AM
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Good news! HP really caught on after this book and so the last books don't have a recap! *NM*
16/08/2010 03:27:24 PM
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Chapters 4-6 - The Weasleys
16/08/2010 09:33:57 AM
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Characters - a few new ones
17/08/2010 08:22:33 AM
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Re: Characters - a few new ones
17/08/2010 11:07:43 AM
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Re: Characters - a few new ones
17/08/2010 12:18:30 PM
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Re: Characters - a few new ones
17/08/2010 12:24:41 PM
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Also on the topic of Amos' talk of Cedric and Harry... (spoilers for end of book)
17/08/2010 12:44:19 PM
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Re: Also on the topic of Amos' talk of Cedric and Harry... (spoilers for end of book)
17/08/2010 12:47:29 PM
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Oh, I can think of a few more things that will prove relevant. But that's for tomorrow. *NM*
17/08/2010 12:51:50 PM
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And arguably another one of those fun names with a hidden meaning...
17/08/2010 07:47:43 PM
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Plotting - anything of note?
17/08/2010 08:23:53 AM
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Re: Plotting - anything of note?
17/08/2010 11:10:22 AM
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The Lovegoods? This is why reading in translation can be annoying...
17/08/2010 12:29:50 PM
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Re: The Lovegoods? This is why reading in translation can be annoying...
17/08/2010 12:38:09 PM
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I thought that might be it. Yeah, different names in the Dutch translation then. *NM*
17/08/2010 12:40:45 PM
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Any other comments/observations.
17/08/2010 08:24:20 AM
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Chapters 7-9 - The Quidditch World Cup and Death Eaters
16/08/2010 09:34:26 AM
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Characters: Ministers, Mothers, other important people.
18/08/2010 12:44:16 AM
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Plotting
18/08/2010 12:44:48 AM
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Other stuff.
18/08/2010 12:45:13 AM
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Krum Catching the Snitch
18/08/2010 02:28:58 AM
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It makes a certain amount of sense, I think...
18/08/2010 01:23:46 PM
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Clothes and other schools
18/08/2010 09:44:02 AM
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There's a first mention of Beauxbatons in chapter nine.
18/08/2010 01:37:14 PM
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Re: There's a first mention of Beauxbatons in chapter nine.
18/08/2010 01:45:58 PM
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Chapters 10-12: Back to Hogwarts and the Tri-Wizard Tournament. *NM*
16/08/2010 09:34:48 AM
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Characters: introducing Rita Skeeter and Alastor "Mad-Eye" Moody. *NM*
19/08/2010 11:21:29 AM
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Re: Characters: introducing Rita Skeeter and Alastor "Mad-Eye" Moody.
19/08/2010 05:23:11 PM
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Any other comments, observations or revelations? *NM*
19/08/2010 11:23:48 AM
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There was that Durmstrang reference I was waiting for.
19/08/2010 04:23:16 PM
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Re: There was that Durmstrang reference I was waiting for.
19/08/2010 05:41:04 PM
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Chapters 13-15: First lessons, and the arrival of the foreign guests *NM*
16/08/2010 09:35:09 AM
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Characters: The Trio, Neville, Moody, first impressions of Karkarov and Maxime *NM*
20/08/2010 11:49:04 AM
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Hagrid, Rita, Moody, Neville, Harry, Hedwig, Cedric, McGonnagall, Hermione and Madamme Maxime
20/08/2010 12:59:41 PM
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Re: Hagrid, Rita, Moody, Neville, Harry, Hedwig, Cedric, McGonnagall, Hermione and Madamme Maxime
20/08/2010 02:10:03 PM
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Re: Hagrid, Rita, Moody, Neville, Harry, Hedwig, Cedric, McGonnagall, Hermione and Madamme Maxime
20/08/2010 02:20:22 PM
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Re: Hagrid, Rita, Moody, Neville, Harry, Hedwig, Cedric, McGonnagall, Hermione and Madamme Maxime
20/08/2010 02:33:04 PM
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Re: Hagrid, Rita, Moody, Neville, Harry, Hedwig, Cedric, McGonnagall, Hermione and Madamme Maxime
20/08/2010 02:36:50 PM
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Plotting and writing. *NM*
20/08/2010 11:51:43 AM
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Plotplotplot (plot makes a funny noise if you say it like that).
20/08/2010 01:04:01 PM
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Re: Plotplotplot (plot makes a funny noise if you say it like that).
20/08/2010 01:55:29 PM
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Re: Plotplotplot (plot makes a funny noise if you say it like that).
20/08/2010 02:04:07 PM
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Anything else to add? *NM*
20/08/2010 11:52:05 AM
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Yes. Five things, actually. Magic, Snape, idiocy, apparating while presumed guilty aaand evil films.
20/08/2010 01:05:06 PM
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Trelawney, or how one can be a Seer and not even know it.
20/08/2010 01:46:09 PM
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Chapters 16-18: The Tri-Wizard Tournament begins *NM*
16/08/2010 09:35:31 AM
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Characters: The Champions, Hagrid, Karkarov, and of course Rita Skeeter in person *NM*
21/08/2010 01:10:53 PM
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Karkaroff, Moody, Fleur, Krum, Ron, Hermione, Snape and Rita
21/08/2010 01:50:12 PM
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Re: Karkaroff, Moody, Fleur, Krum, Ron, Hermione, Snape and Rita
21/08/2010 04:24:02 PM
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Re: Karkaroff, Moody, Fleur, Krum, Ron, Hermione, Snape and Rita
21/08/2010 04:40:39 PM
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Re: Karkaroff, Moody, Fleur, Krum, Ron, Hermione, Snape and Rita
21/08/2010 05:06:43 PM
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Re: Karkaroff, Moody, Fleur, Krum, Ron, Hermione, Snape and Rita
21/08/2010 05:10:53 PM
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Oh, you're right, it is then. I thought you meant she said it to Harry.
21/08/2010 05:31:49 PM
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Re: Oh, you're right, it is then. I thought you meant she said it to Harry.
21/08/2010 05:41:44 PM
- 1893 Views
The teeth comment was by far the best Snape one liner in the series.
23/08/2010 09:20:18 PM
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Re: The teeth comment was by far the best Snape one liner in the series.
23/08/2010 09:22:26 PM
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Definitely true
23/08/2010 10:02:46 PM
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Re: Definitely true
24/08/2010 06:20:53 PM
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Plotting and writing.
21/08/2010 01:12:24 PM
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plotting both for the book alone and the series as a whole
21/08/2010 01:39:10 PM
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Other comments, small details you noticed,...? *NM*
21/08/2010 01:12:53 PM
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House-elves, Hufflepuff and minds in gutter.
21/08/2010 01:35:38 PM
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Re: House-elves, Hufflepuff and minds in gutter.
21/08/2010 04:55:10 PM
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Re: House-elves, Hufflepuff and minds in gutter.
21/08/2010 04:59:55 PM
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I love the bouillabaisse thing.
21/08/2010 05:02:47 PM
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Re: I love the bouillabaisse thing.
21/08/2010 05:08:40 PM
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I associate blancmange more with Britain than with anywhere else...
21/08/2010 05:26:17 PM
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Re: I love the bouillabaisse thing.
21/08/2010 05:12:54 PM
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No, no, the pudding and the bouillabaisse are two different things.
21/08/2010 05:24:50 PM
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Re: No, no, the pudding and the bouillabaisse are two different things.
21/08/2010 05:39:06 PM
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Hermione really comes into her own in this book.
27/08/2010 11:30:38 PM
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Agreed, but spending really all her time with those two boys does make it easier...
27/08/2010 11:36:20 PM
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Re: Agreed, but spending really all her time with those two boys does make it easier...
27/08/2010 11:48:19 PM
- 1845 Views
Chapters 19-21: The first task and House-Elves at Hogwarts *NM*
16/08/2010 09:35:53 AM
- 965 Views
Characters: The Trio, the Champions, Moody, Dobby and Winky,...
23/08/2010 10:40:21 AM
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The trio, Neville and the House-elves.
23/08/2010 11:07:50 AM
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Re: The trio, Neville and the House-elves.
23/08/2010 11:35:56 AM
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Re: The trio, Neville and the House-elves.
23/08/2010 11:44:08 AM
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Ron and Harry, Winky, various other thoughts.
23/08/2010 11:19:21 AM
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Re: Ron and Harry, Winky, various other thoughts.
23/08/2010 11:56:37 AM
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Plotting and writing: the first task and other events *NM*
23/08/2010 10:41:20 AM
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Good plotting in this section
23/08/2010 11:08:50 AM
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Anything else you want to comment on? *NM*
23/08/2010 10:41:39 AM
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I love that there is a book called Men Who Love Dragons Too Much. *NM*
23/08/2010 11:09:15 AM
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Chapters 22-24: The - rather eventful - Yule Ball *NM*
16/08/2010 09:36:30 AM
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Characters: The Trio, Champions and their dates, Karkarov, Hagrid and Olympe,...
24/08/2010 11:09:33 AM
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Ron and Hermione, mainly.
24/08/2010 11:47:49 AM
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Makes sense.
24/08/2010 01:15:37 PM
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Re: Makes sense.
24/08/2010 03:53:20 PM
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Re: Makes sense.
24/08/2010 05:00:59 PM
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Plotting and writing: a bit of a lull in the tension, perhaps, but there's still a lot going on. *NM*
24/08/2010 11:11:49 AM
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Yule Ball, preparation and aftermath
24/08/2010 11:48:30 AM
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Re: Yule Ball, preparation and aftermath
24/08/2010 02:18:04 PM
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Whatever else you want to say about these three chapters. *NM*
24/08/2010 11:12:33 AM
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Gender roles, Dobby, national stereotypes, creepy magic and gobbledegook.
24/08/2010 11:49:16 AM
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Re: Gender roles, Dobby, national stereotypes, creepy magic and gobbledegook.
24/08/2010 02:27:51 PM
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Re: Gender roles, Dobby, national stereotypes, creepy magic and gobbledegook.
24/08/2010 04:15:15 PM
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Ron's lasso comment is brilliant. Absolute genius.
24/08/2010 02:23:37 PM
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Lasso comment?
24/08/2010 04:20:35 PM
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When discussing methods to separate girls from their gang.
24/08/2010 04:27:47 PM
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Ah. Hehe. Yes.
24/08/2010 04:30:34 PM
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It's not really a humourous pun, just a nice find by the translator.
24/08/2010 04:45:34 PM
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Re: It's not really a humourous pun, just a nice find by the translator.
24/08/2010 04:48:50 PM
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Holy crap.
25/08/2010 02:44:57 PM
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Yeah, I don't know if the Google pictures are entirely representative...
25/08/2010 03:06:25 PM
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Chapters 25-27: The second task and Padfoot's return
16/08/2010 09:36:55 AM
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Characters: The Trio, Krum, Fleur, Sirius,... *NM*
25/08/2010 11:18:49 AM
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Snape, Percy, Hermione, Ron, Mrs Weasley and Sirius.
25/08/2010 05:31:18 PM
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I'm a bit worried about people's reactions to Snape during these discussions
25/08/2010 05:41:43 PM
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Re: I'm a bit worried about people's reactions to Snape during these discussions
25/08/2010 05:45:30 PM
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Agreed. Snape is one of the most fascinating characters I have ever read
25/08/2010 05:57:12 PM
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Fleur shows that, when push comes to shove, she has her priorities straight.
26/08/2010 10:54:11 AM
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Re: Fleur shows that, when push comes to shove, she has her priorities straight.
26/08/2010 11:21:59 AM
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Plotting and writing: clues, red herrings and recapitulation *NM*
25/08/2010 11:19:47 AM
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Merpeople and the second task.
25/08/2010 11:34:40 AM
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And something else I never understood about the second task
25/08/2010 02:32:51 PM
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That's a good point, yeah...
25/08/2010 03:07:30 PM
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Maybe they should have had a magical big screen projection of what was going on in the lake lol
25/08/2010 03:57:48 PM
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Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book.
25/08/2010 05:23:30 PM
- 1817 Views
Re: Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book.
25/08/2010 05:40:39 PM
- 1882 Views
Re: Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book.
25/08/2010 05:42:52 PM
- 1771 Views
Re: Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book.
26/08/2010 11:09:20 AM
- 1783 Views
Re: Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book.
26/08/2010 11:17:36 AM
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Marauder's Map.
05/09/2010 05:27:17 AM
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Other comments. *NM*
25/08/2010 11:20:11 AM
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Two completely unrelated things.
25/08/2010 05:24:26 PM
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Re: Two completely unrelated things.
25/08/2010 05:36:29 PM
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Re: Two completely unrelated things.
25/08/2010 05:42:20 PM
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Chapters 28-30: Moving towards the climax *NM*
16/08/2010 09:37:22 AM
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Characters: The Trio, Krum, Karkarov, the Crouch family,... *NM*
26/08/2010 12:15:59 PM
- 978 Views
Madame Maxime, Crouch, Snape, Twins, Fudge and Neville
26/08/2010 02:48:04 PM
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Plotting and writing: increasing signs of danger, and revelations about the past. *NM*
26/08/2010 12:16:50 PM
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Some good plotting here, and some recurring issues.
26/08/2010 02:50:29 PM
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Re: Some good plotting here, and some recurring issues.
26/08/2010 03:38:53 PM
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Re: Some good plotting here, and some recurring issues.
26/08/2010 03:51:32 PM
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Chapters 31-33: The third task
16/08/2010 09:38:01 AM
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Characters: The Trio, the Champions, Voldemort, Wormtail,,... *NM*
27/08/2010 01:32:11 PM
- 989 Views
Ron, Mrs Weasley, Madame Maxime, Wormtail, Voldemort, Quirrel
27/08/2010 03:50:03 PM
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Re: Ron, Mrs Weasley, Madame Maxime, Wormtail, Voldemort, Quirrel
27/08/2010 05:09:48 PM
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Re: Ron, Mrs Weasley, Madame Maxime, Wormtail, Voldemort, Quirrel
27/08/2010 05:23:14 PM
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Plotting and writing: thrilling action, but also a fair bit of infodump/flashback. *NM*
27/08/2010 01:34:13 PM
- 951 Views
Stuff happens.
27/08/2010 03:50:33 PM
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Riddle Family.
05/09/2010 05:39:29 AM
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Anything else to add? *NM*
27/08/2010 01:34:39 PM
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Chapters 34-37: The climax and the aftermath *NM*
16/08/2010 09:38:22 AM
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Characters: Well, pretty much all of them, I guess. *NM*
28/08/2010 11:04:41 AM
- 955 Views
Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Snape, Ron and Hermione
28/08/2010 11:57:25 AM
- 1861 Views
Plotting and writing: tying up, explanations and setting up the future books. *NM*
28/08/2010 11:05:33 AM
- 930 Views
Revelations and then some
28/08/2010 12:02:36 PM
- 1815 Views
Any other thoughts? *NM*
28/08/2010 11:06:03 AM
- 970 Views
Two questions and one other thing.
28/08/2010 12:03:14 PM
- 1930 Views
The book as a whole: overall thoughts, comments and obversations
16/08/2010 09:39:24 AM
- 1840 Views
What do/did you think of Rowling's writing in this book?
16/08/2010 09:40:03 AM
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I think she has more room to display her talent in this book.
28/08/2010 11:27:20 AM
- 1927 Views
Suggestions for the re-read.
16/08/2010 09:41:01 AM
- 1978 Views
Is it possible / easy to make the post an Announcement while it's ongoing?
17/08/2010 03:08:31 PM
- 1815 Views
When should we start the next book? And at which pace?
28/08/2010 11:09:07 AM
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Re: When should we start the next book? And at which pace?
28/08/2010 12:05:31 PM
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