Re: Some good plotting here, and some recurring issues.
Legolas Send a noteboard - 26/08/2010 03:38:53 PM
The Crouch/Moody enigma is getting very tightly packed. Winky informs us that she is not only doing homework for her master, but also secret stuff. And Harry meets Crouch in the forest. I cannot quite make out what ``You are not his means (is he referring to Karkaroff? Voldemort?), but the rest of the scene is riddled with very strong clues in retrospect. He keeps mentioning his son and wife. And Moody shows up at the scene in very short time with a dubious explanation of Snape telling him.
Voldemort, presumably, yeah... and indeed, even more info to figure things out with. But Sirius' apparently factual mention of Junior being dead makes it very hard to guess everything.
Moreover, the fact that the bad guy was probably only a few feet from Harry (as Sirius, and then Harry point out) and didn't kill him, is a big clue. Hermione's explanation that it wouldn't look like an accident is very thin: the Goblet entry sure doesn't.
Yeah. Surely it should be clear by now than plain killing is not the goal.
We are given the indication that Wormtail has been in charge of Crouch. The dream sequence bugs me a little, however. I suppose it could be argued that Voldemort possesses the bird (or some animal sitting on top of the bird?), but that is not how Harry describes it later on (he says the owl was bringing a letter). Taken together with the first chapter, this indicates that Rowling has not quite worked out how the Voldemort/Harry link works yet.
Indeed, it doesn't really work the same way as on later occasions.
And finally there is the pensive (which will play quite a major part in later books), with not only Karkaroff's testimony (Snape is confirmed as a former death eater, and that part of the enigmas in this book at least is resolved), but also Bagman's (revealing what Rita knew about him, and indicating that he may not be just the cheerful sports guy that he presents himself as -- the trial is shown as being the worst case celebrity trial). I love how Crouch says ``the day Ludo Bagman joins us will be a very sad day for the Ministry''. And of course, the main bit, the trial of Crouch's son where we get the first glimpse of the Lestranges and the explanation for Neville's reaction to the cruciatus curse. And of course the main baddie, who does not seem like one at all.
That's perhaps my main problem with this book. Barty Junior goes into Azkaban as a frightened, panicking boy and comes out a cold-blooded, quick-thinking and highly competent Death Eater - arguably the most competent we see anywhere in the series? Azkaban may make one tougher in a way, as with Sirius, but Barty Junior's transformation is really strange.
Ravenwood will also be relevant again later on, since he works at Mystification.
The Bagman enigma also gets a major hint when we are told Leprechaun gold disappears. At this point is it should actually be possible to work out the twins/bagman plot, I think.
Yeah, it should be fairly obvious really... at least that they didn't get the gold he owed them, and that that's what the "blackmail" is about. It's a bit strange that Ron, for all his "they only think about money now" speech, doesn't comment on how evidently Fred and George don't seem to have the very sizeable sum - in the hundreds of Galleons at the very least, surely - they were supposed to have gotten from Bagman.
The Rita Skeeter plot picks up some steam, with Hermione promising to ``get her back'' and the idea that she might be ``bugging'' them. That is another of Rowling's finer moments. I like her play with words.
I was gonna ask you how it worked in the English version. And yes, we didn't comment on it in the previous section, but Krum's mention of the beetle in Hermione's hair was of course a big clue.
The twins are painted as potentially gone to the bad. I never really bought it, and I think this is one of the reasons I have issues with this book.
Yeah, it's fairly silly. And Ron's not exactly in a position to complain about them thinking so much about money, considering how annoyed he gets about the leprechaun gold thing...
The theme of bigotry shows up again in Fudge's suggestion that Madame Maxime has done away with (eaten?) Crouch. Dumbledore's dismissal of it is quite lovely, but it paints quite a strong image of mainstream wizard ideas when the minister for magic can say something like that (of course, it doesn't help when the minister is a moron).
Yeah, it's really all over when you start looking for it... and Fudge's tendency of looking for easy victims to blame things on so as to keep the press off his back is shown. Or the Ministry in general, really - Scrimgeour will do it too.
Nifflers are introduced. They play some part in the next book. Of course, there is no way of telling whether this is a planned introduction or rather Rowling reaching back to earlier material to build on it. But that is true for most of the bookspanning pre-introductions.
Yeah. It's good that she tries to not use magical dei ex machinis, though, and announces her magical plot devices beforehand.
We also get the first use of the patronus to alert someone when Dumbledore calls for Hagrid.
Do we ever actually find out what patronus Dumbledore has?
A question, however: right at the end, was Dumbledore going to say something else? He only wishes him good luck, but I cannot shake the feeling that the pause is significant.
You may be right, but what? "Oh, by the way, you'll have to be the one to kill him"? Surely it can't be the big thing, but I'm not sure what smaller thing he could have said... though he clearly knows more than Harry about the plot at this point.
The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book Four Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire
16/08/2010 09:28:48 AM
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Chapters 1-3: A different beginning
16/08/2010 09:30:26 AM
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Early characters
16/08/2010 09:32:12 AM
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Re: Early characters
16/08/2010 11:02:23 AM
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Early plotting.
16/08/2010 09:32:52 AM
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Re: Early plotting.
16/08/2010 11:02:09 AM
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It's the things behind the scenes setting up the big plan (spoilers for this and later books)
16/08/2010 11:38:14 AM
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Re: It's the things behind the scenes setting up the big plan (spoilers for this and later books)
16/08/2010 11:47:16 AM
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Re: It's the things behind the scenes setting up the big plan (spoilers for this and later books)
16/08/2010 12:16:16 PM
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Re: It's the things behind the scenes setting up the big plan (spoilers for this and later books)
16/08/2010 12:36:30 PM
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Re: Early plotting.
17/08/2010 01:15:43 AM
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Any other comments/observations
16/08/2010 09:33:34 AM
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Mob mentality and British euroscepticism.
16/08/2010 10:37:10 AM
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people in groups and baffling violence. And the godawful recaps
16/08/2010 11:03:09 AM
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Yeah, I agree about the recaps, they're pointless at this point. *NM*
16/08/2010 11:17:37 AM
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Good news! HP really caught on after this book and so the last books don't have a recap! *NM*
16/08/2010 03:27:24 PM
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Chapters 4-6 - The Weasleys
16/08/2010 09:33:57 AM
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Characters - a few new ones
17/08/2010 08:22:33 AM
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Re: Characters - a few new ones
17/08/2010 11:07:43 AM
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Re: Characters - a few new ones
17/08/2010 12:18:30 PM
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Re: Characters - a few new ones
17/08/2010 12:24:41 PM
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Also on the topic of Amos' talk of Cedric and Harry... (spoilers for end of book)
17/08/2010 12:44:19 PM
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Re: Also on the topic of Amos' talk of Cedric and Harry... (spoilers for end of book)
17/08/2010 12:47:29 PM
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Oh, I can think of a few more things that will prove relevant. But that's for tomorrow. *NM*
17/08/2010 12:51:50 PM
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And arguably another one of those fun names with a hidden meaning...
17/08/2010 07:47:43 PM
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Plotting - anything of note?
17/08/2010 08:23:53 AM
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Re: Plotting - anything of note?
17/08/2010 11:10:22 AM
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The Lovegoods? This is why reading in translation can be annoying...
17/08/2010 12:29:50 PM
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Re: The Lovegoods? This is why reading in translation can be annoying...
17/08/2010 12:38:09 PM
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I thought that might be it. Yeah, different names in the Dutch translation then. *NM*
17/08/2010 12:40:45 PM
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Any other comments/observations.
17/08/2010 08:24:20 AM
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Chapters 7-9 - The Quidditch World Cup and Death Eaters
16/08/2010 09:34:26 AM
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Characters: Ministers, Mothers, other important people.
18/08/2010 12:44:16 AM
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Plotting
18/08/2010 12:44:48 AM
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Other stuff.
18/08/2010 12:45:13 AM
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Krum Catching the Snitch
18/08/2010 02:28:58 AM
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It makes a certain amount of sense, I think...
18/08/2010 01:23:46 PM
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Clothes and other schools
18/08/2010 09:44:02 AM
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There's a first mention of Beauxbatons in chapter nine.
18/08/2010 01:37:14 PM
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Re: There's a first mention of Beauxbatons in chapter nine.
18/08/2010 01:45:58 PM
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Chapters 10-12: Back to Hogwarts and the Tri-Wizard Tournament. *NM*
16/08/2010 09:34:48 AM
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Characters: introducing Rita Skeeter and Alastor "Mad-Eye" Moody. *NM*
19/08/2010 11:21:29 AM
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Re: Characters: introducing Rita Skeeter and Alastor "Mad-Eye" Moody.
19/08/2010 05:23:11 PM
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Any other comments, observations or revelations? *NM*
19/08/2010 11:23:48 AM
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There was that Durmstrang reference I was waiting for.
19/08/2010 04:23:16 PM
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Re: There was that Durmstrang reference I was waiting for.
19/08/2010 05:41:04 PM
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Chapters 13-15: First lessons, and the arrival of the foreign guests *NM*
16/08/2010 09:35:09 AM
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Characters: The Trio, Neville, Moody, first impressions of Karkarov and Maxime *NM*
20/08/2010 11:49:04 AM
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Hagrid, Rita, Moody, Neville, Harry, Hedwig, Cedric, McGonnagall, Hermione and Madamme Maxime
20/08/2010 12:59:41 PM
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Re: Hagrid, Rita, Moody, Neville, Harry, Hedwig, Cedric, McGonnagall, Hermione and Madamme Maxime
20/08/2010 02:10:03 PM
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Re: Hagrid, Rita, Moody, Neville, Harry, Hedwig, Cedric, McGonnagall, Hermione and Madamme Maxime
20/08/2010 02:20:22 PM
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Re: Hagrid, Rita, Moody, Neville, Harry, Hedwig, Cedric, McGonnagall, Hermione and Madamme Maxime
20/08/2010 02:33:04 PM
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Re: Hagrid, Rita, Moody, Neville, Harry, Hedwig, Cedric, McGonnagall, Hermione and Madamme Maxime
20/08/2010 02:36:50 PM
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Plotting and writing. *NM*
20/08/2010 11:51:43 AM
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Plotplotplot (plot makes a funny noise if you say it like that).
20/08/2010 01:04:01 PM
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Re: Plotplotplot (plot makes a funny noise if you say it like that).
20/08/2010 01:55:29 PM
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Re: Plotplotplot (plot makes a funny noise if you say it like that).
20/08/2010 02:04:07 PM
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Anything else to add? *NM*
20/08/2010 11:52:05 AM
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Yes. Five things, actually. Magic, Snape, idiocy, apparating while presumed guilty aaand evil films.
20/08/2010 01:05:06 PM
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Trelawney, or how one can be a Seer and not even know it.
20/08/2010 01:46:09 PM
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Chapters 16-18: The Tri-Wizard Tournament begins *NM*
16/08/2010 09:35:31 AM
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Characters: The Champions, Hagrid, Karkarov, and of course Rita Skeeter in person *NM*
21/08/2010 01:10:53 PM
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Karkaroff, Moody, Fleur, Krum, Ron, Hermione, Snape and Rita
21/08/2010 01:50:12 PM
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Re: Karkaroff, Moody, Fleur, Krum, Ron, Hermione, Snape and Rita
21/08/2010 04:24:02 PM
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Re: Karkaroff, Moody, Fleur, Krum, Ron, Hermione, Snape and Rita
21/08/2010 04:40:39 PM
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Re: Karkaroff, Moody, Fleur, Krum, Ron, Hermione, Snape and Rita
21/08/2010 05:06:43 PM
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Re: Karkaroff, Moody, Fleur, Krum, Ron, Hermione, Snape and Rita
21/08/2010 05:10:53 PM
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Oh, you're right, it is then. I thought you meant she said it to Harry.
21/08/2010 05:31:49 PM
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Re: Oh, you're right, it is then. I thought you meant she said it to Harry.
21/08/2010 05:41:44 PM
- 1894 Views
The teeth comment was by far the best Snape one liner in the series.
23/08/2010 09:20:18 PM
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Re: The teeth comment was by far the best Snape one liner in the series.
23/08/2010 09:22:26 PM
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Definitely true
23/08/2010 10:02:46 PM
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Re: Definitely true
24/08/2010 06:20:53 PM
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Plotting and writing.
21/08/2010 01:12:24 PM
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plotting both for the book alone and the series as a whole
21/08/2010 01:39:10 PM
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Other comments, small details you noticed,...? *NM*
21/08/2010 01:12:53 PM
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House-elves, Hufflepuff and minds in gutter.
21/08/2010 01:35:38 PM
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Re: House-elves, Hufflepuff and minds in gutter.
21/08/2010 04:55:10 PM
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Re: House-elves, Hufflepuff and minds in gutter.
21/08/2010 04:59:55 PM
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I love the bouillabaisse thing.
21/08/2010 05:02:47 PM
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Re: I love the bouillabaisse thing.
21/08/2010 05:08:40 PM
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I associate blancmange more with Britain than with anywhere else...
21/08/2010 05:26:17 PM
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Re: I love the bouillabaisse thing.
21/08/2010 05:12:54 PM
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No, no, the pudding and the bouillabaisse are two different things.
21/08/2010 05:24:50 PM
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Re: No, no, the pudding and the bouillabaisse are two different things.
21/08/2010 05:39:06 PM
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Hermione really comes into her own in this book.
27/08/2010 11:30:38 PM
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Agreed, but spending really all her time with those two boys does make it easier...
27/08/2010 11:36:20 PM
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Re: Agreed, but spending really all her time with those two boys does make it easier...
27/08/2010 11:48:19 PM
- 1846 Views
Chapters 19-21: The first task and House-Elves at Hogwarts *NM*
16/08/2010 09:35:53 AM
- 966 Views
Characters: The Trio, the Champions, Moody, Dobby and Winky,...
23/08/2010 10:40:21 AM
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The trio, Neville and the House-elves.
23/08/2010 11:07:50 AM
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Re: The trio, Neville and the House-elves.
23/08/2010 11:35:56 AM
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Re: The trio, Neville and the House-elves.
23/08/2010 11:44:08 AM
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Ron and Harry, Winky, various other thoughts.
23/08/2010 11:19:21 AM
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Re: Ron and Harry, Winky, various other thoughts.
23/08/2010 11:56:37 AM
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Plotting and writing: the first task and other events *NM*
23/08/2010 10:41:20 AM
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Good plotting in this section
23/08/2010 11:08:50 AM
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Anything else you want to comment on? *NM*
23/08/2010 10:41:39 AM
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I love that there is a book called Men Who Love Dragons Too Much. *NM*
23/08/2010 11:09:15 AM
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Chapters 22-24: The - rather eventful - Yule Ball *NM*
16/08/2010 09:36:30 AM
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Characters: The Trio, Champions and their dates, Karkarov, Hagrid and Olympe,...
24/08/2010 11:09:33 AM
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Ron and Hermione, mainly.
24/08/2010 11:47:49 AM
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Makes sense.
24/08/2010 01:15:37 PM
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Re: Makes sense.
24/08/2010 03:53:20 PM
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Re: Makes sense.
24/08/2010 05:00:59 PM
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Plotting and writing: a bit of a lull in the tension, perhaps, but there's still a lot going on. *NM*
24/08/2010 11:11:49 AM
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Yule Ball, preparation and aftermath
24/08/2010 11:48:30 AM
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Re: Yule Ball, preparation and aftermath
24/08/2010 02:18:04 PM
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Whatever else you want to say about these three chapters. *NM*
24/08/2010 11:12:33 AM
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Gender roles, Dobby, national stereotypes, creepy magic and gobbledegook.
24/08/2010 11:49:16 AM
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Re: Gender roles, Dobby, national stereotypes, creepy magic and gobbledegook.
24/08/2010 02:27:51 PM
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Re: Gender roles, Dobby, national stereotypes, creepy magic and gobbledegook.
24/08/2010 04:15:15 PM
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Ron's lasso comment is brilliant. Absolute genius.
24/08/2010 02:23:37 PM
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Lasso comment?
24/08/2010 04:20:35 PM
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When discussing methods to separate girls from their gang.
24/08/2010 04:27:47 PM
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Ah. Hehe. Yes.
24/08/2010 04:30:34 PM
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It's not really a humourous pun, just a nice find by the translator.
24/08/2010 04:45:34 PM
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Re: It's not really a humourous pun, just a nice find by the translator.
24/08/2010 04:48:50 PM
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Holy crap.
25/08/2010 02:44:57 PM
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Yeah, I don't know if the Google pictures are entirely representative...
25/08/2010 03:06:25 PM
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Chapters 25-27: The second task and Padfoot's return
16/08/2010 09:36:55 AM
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Characters: The Trio, Krum, Fleur, Sirius,... *NM*
25/08/2010 11:18:49 AM
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Snape, Percy, Hermione, Ron, Mrs Weasley and Sirius.
25/08/2010 05:31:18 PM
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I'm a bit worried about people's reactions to Snape during these discussions
25/08/2010 05:41:43 PM
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Re: I'm a bit worried about people's reactions to Snape during these discussions
25/08/2010 05:45:30 PM
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Agreed. Snape is one of the most fascinating characters I have ever read
25/08/2010 05:57:12 PM
- 1863 Views
Fleur shows that, when push comes to shove, she has her priorities straight.
26/08/2010 10:54:11 AM
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Re: Fleur shows that, when push comes to shove, she has her priorities straight.
26/08/2010 11:21:59 AM
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Plotting and writing: clues, red herrings and recapitulation *NM*
25/08/2010 11:19:47 AM
- 967 Views
Merpeople and the second task.
25/08/2010 11:34:40 AM
- 1873 Views
And something else I never understood about the second task
25/08/2010 02:32:51 PM
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That's a good point, yeah...
25/08/2010 03:07:30 PM
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Maybe they should have had a magical big screen projection of what was going on in the lake lol
25/08/2010 03:57:48 PM
- 1825 Views
Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book.
25/08/2010 05:23:30 PM
- 1818 Views
Re: Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book.
25/08/2010 05:40:39 PM
- 1883 Views
Re: Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book.
25/08/2010 05:42:52 PM
- 1772 Views
Re: Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book.
26/08/2010 11:09:20 AM
- 1784 Views
Re: Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book.
26/08/2010 11:17:36 AM
- 1929 Views
Marauder's Map.
05/09/2010 05:27:17 AM
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Other comments. *NM*
25/08/2010 11:20:11 AM
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Two completely unrelated things.
25/08/2010 05:24:26 PM
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Re: Two completely unrelated things.
25/08/2010 05:36:29 PM
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Re: Two completely unrelated things.
25/08/2010 05:42:20 PM
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Chapters 28-30: Moving towards the climax *NM*
16/08/2010 09:37:22 AM
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Characters: The Trio, Krum, Karkarov, the Crouch family,... *NM*
26/08/2010 12:15:59 PM
- 979 Views
Madame Maxime, Crouch, Snape, Twins, Fudge and Neville
26/08/2010 02:48:04 PM
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Plotting and writing: increasing signs of danger, and revelations about the past. *NM*
26/08/2010 12:16:50 PM
- 949 Views
Some good plotting here, and some recurring issues.
26/08/2010 02:50:29 PM
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Re: Some good plotting here, and some recurring issues.
26/08/2010 03:38:53 PM
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Re: Some good plotting here, and some recurring issues.
26/08/2010 03:51:32 PM
- 1880 Views
Chapters 31-33: The third task
16/08/2010 09:38:01 AM
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Characters: The Trio, the Champions, Voldemort, Wormtail,,... *NM*
27/08/2010 01:32:11 PM
- 990 Views
Ron, Mrs Weasley, Madame Maxime, Wormtail, Voldemort, Quirrel
27/08/2010 03:50:03 PM
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Re: Ron, Mrs Weasley, Madame Maxime, Wormtail, Voldemort, Quirrel
27/08/2010 05:09:48 PM
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Re: Ron, Mrs Weasley, Madame Maxime, Wormtail, Voldemort, Quirrel
27/08/2010 05:23:14 PM
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Plotting and writing: thrilling action, but also a fair bit of infodump/flashback. *NM*
27/08/2010 01:34:13 PM
- 952 Views
Stuff happens.
27/08/2010 03:50:33 PM
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Riddle Family.
05/09/2010 05:39:29 AM
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Anything else to add? *NM*
27/08/2010 01:34:39 PM
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Chapters 34-37: The climax and the aftermath *NM*
16/08/2010 09:38:22 AM
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Characters: Well, pretty much all of them, I guess. *NM*
28/08/2010 11:04:41 AM
- 955 Views
Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Snape, Ron and Hermione
28/08/2010 11:57:25 AM
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Plotting and writing: tying up, explanations and setting up the future books. *NM*
28/08/2010 11:05:33 AM
- 931 Views
Revelations and then some
28/08/2010 12:02:36 PM
- 1816 Views
Any other thoughts? *NM*
28/08/2010 11:06:03 AM
- 971 Views
Two questions and one other thing.
28/08/2010 12:03:14 PM
- 1931 Views
The book as a whole: overall thoughts, comments and obversations
16/08/2010 09:39:24 AM
- 1841 Views
What do/did you think of Rowling's writing in this book?
16/08/2010 09:40:03 AM
- 1855 Views
I think she has more room to display her talent in this book.
28/08/2010 11:27:20 AM
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Suggestions for the re-read.
16/08/2010 09:41:01 AM
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Is it possible / easy to make the post an Announcement while it's ongoing?
17/08/2010 03:08:31 PM
- 1816 Views
When should we start the next book? And at which pace?
28/08/2010 11:09:07 AM
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Re: When should we start the next book? And at which pace?
28/08/2010 12:05:31 PM
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