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This. *NM* Dan Send a noteboard - 30/07/2010 07:43:24 PM
A friend of mine, Paul Smith, wrote this essay earlier today in response to an earlier essay of mine on genre sacred cows and discussion of such. Since he has a few links to related discussions, I suggest you just click on the link and read his arguments.


I read his books as a kid and then moved on. I remember liking them but I never had a desire to learn Elven languages or dress up as Gollum (sp) for Halloween and I never felt the need to put him on a pedestal of any sort even though I can definitely appreciate the effort he put into his books and their importance in the history of the fantasy genre. I respect Tolkien but I get seriously annoyed be his fans at times when they turn him into some kind of flawless artist of pen and paper. Of course, just as dumb are people who want to overly criticize his flaws in some attempt to show how awesome their skills at critiquing literature are.
This message last edited by Dan on 30/07/2010 at 07:43:39 PM
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Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy - 28/07/2010 10:02:39 PM 1711 Views
Nonsense, at least in part - 28/07/2010 10:19:19 PM 1274 Views
I know there is a polite difference of opinion here - 28/07/2010 10:40:42 PM 1091 Views
So we should judge the Iliad against modren fantasy novels? - 29/07/2010 12:04:32 PM 1119 Views
i agree, and furthermore... - 29/07/2010 08:46:07 PM 1189 Views
Re: I know there is a polite difference of opinion here - 29/07/2010 08:44:24 PM 1116 Views
Mno - 30/07/2010 09:07:18 AM 1198 Views
Have to agree. - 28/07/2010 11:38:37 PM 1182 Views
It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. - 29/07/2010 09:44:53 AM 1003 Views
*cough* Twilight *cough* - 29/07/2010 10:15:13 AM 1045 Views
I was gonna mention that one too. - 29/07/2010 10:35:17 AM 1121 Views
Mmm. I read an interesting article actually... - 29/07/2010 08:24:04 PM 938 Views
That's a fair point, I guess... - 29/07/2010 09:18:13 PM 1140 Views
It's hardly tacit. I'm glad I've never read the things. - 30/07/2010 09:38:33 AM 1135 Views
Fair enough. - 30/07/2010 10:03:07 AM 1136 Views
Also: the writing is crap. - 29/07/2010 01:04:12 PM 1081 Views
but plenty of us hate it after reading *NM* - 29/07/2010 08:24:35 PM 467 Views
How much do you have to read to form an opinion? - 29/07/2010 12:23:28 PM 1091 Views
To the end - 29/07/2010 12:59:25 PM 967 Views
my reading time is too scarce to think that way - 29/07/2010 01:21:26 PM 1141 Views
I agree, but HP is a good example of something you should keep reading - 29/07/2010 08:27:20 PM 1158 Views
and I will - 29/07/2010 09:13:03 PM 875 Views
that's fair enough then - 29/07/2010 10:43:57 PM 937 Views
so I hear - 29/07/2010 11:13:09 PM 902 Views
Re: To the end - 29/07/2010 08:49:06 PM 1021 Views
Re: To the end - 29/07/2010 10:34:44 PM 949 Views
Re: How much do you have to read to form an opinion? - 29/07/2010 01:49:21 PM 1120 Views
The books mature as Harry does. You should really give it another shot *NM* - 29/07/2010 03:00:37 PM 565 Views
He doesn't want to, so why should he? It's not like you or he is losing anything now - 29/07/2010 06:15:58 PM 962 Views
It is a case of the "someone is wrong on the internet" thing, only much older - 29/07/2010 06:27:07 PM 910 Views
well you have not failed completely - 29/07/2010 06:50:15 PM 915 Views
Re: well you have not failed completely - 29/07/2010 06:53:38 PM 960 Views
one quick question - 29/07/2010 07:38:00 PM 997 Views
Re: one quick question - 29/07/2010 07:42:27 PM 1032 Views
well I am not a big enough hypocrite to look down on verbosity - 29/07/2010 08:30:56 PM 938 Views
I have a new essay I want you to read - 29/07/2010 07:44:40 PM 1065 Views
Re: I have a new essay I want you to read - 29/07/2010 10:42:05 PM 1030 Views
how many books do I have to read to get to the grown up books? - 29/07/2010 06:42:37 PM 938 Views
Book 3 is the beginning of the adult ones, imo. - 29/07/2010 06:44:07 PM 1037 Views
Agreed, although, - 29/07/2010 06:54:14 PM 1004 Views
They're all "light reading" for adults, geared towards YA readers. - 29/07/2010 08:29:01 PM 918 Views
Re: It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. - 29/07/2010 08:45:58 PM 1043 Views
it's not supposed to be on par with adult fantasy. - 29/07/2010 08:49:16 PM 1040 Views
I'd argue it's better than Jordan and others from a literary standpoint. - 29/07/2010 09:14:07 PM 990 Views
I have always thought Jordan had some interesting themes but they were often ignored... - 29/07/2010 09:27:12 PM 1132 Views
lol. it's hard to fail with such low preliminary standards *NM* - 29/07/2010 10:46:07 PM 497 Views
good points, i bow to your wisdom - 29/07/2010 10:45:29 PM 919 Views
Oh, agreed. - 30/07/2010 09:05:17 AM 1065 Views
Incidentall - 28/07/2010 10:39:52 PM 1026 Views
Ha! - 28/07/2010 10:41:41 PM 1146 Views
Re: Ha! - 28/07/2010 10:45:38 PM 1035 Views
Ah - 28/07/2010 10:49:22 PM 1088 Views
I agree Tolkien should not be a sacred cow or put on a pedestal overmuch. - 28/07/2010 11:10:37 PM 1109 Views
I can see your points there - 28/07/2010 11:18:59 PM 1007 Views
I grow weary of people refusing to view LotR in context. - 28/07/2010 11:14:07 PM 1060 Views
all art forms have sacred cows - 29/07/2010 01:38:26 AM 1116 Views
Yeah, it was the line about women waiting at home while their men went to war that made me laugh. - 29/07/2010 06:44:34 PM 1011 Views
women deserve black lung too!! - 29/07/2010 08:35:17 PM 911 Views
nah the smart ones do like my grandmother did - 29/07/2010 09:15:14 PM 980 Views
All Tolkien-haters are morons. - 29/07/2010 03:30:27 AM 1273 Views
Disappointing. - 29/07/2010 04:41:34 AM 1071 Views
Re: Disappointing. - 29/07/2010 09:19:25 AM 998 Views
Probably in the sense... - 29/07/2010 02:57:47 PM 950 Views
Perhaps more of 'a complication' to good discussion. - 29/07/2010 08:28:59 PM 910 Views
agreed. *NM* - 29/07/2010 08:32:36 PM 483 Views
I think you are ignoring the key fact that the Silmarillion was never published by Tolkien. - 30/07/2010 01:48:14 PM 1314 Views
The Silmarillion was actually one of Tolkien's first works - 30/07/2010 06:12:31 PM 1397 Views
No it wasn't. - 30/07/2010 06:37:19 PM 1048 Views
Re: Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy - 29/07/2010 08:42:04 PM 1066 Views
I find the Tolkien lovers to be obnoxious in their never ending masturbatory praise of his works. - 30/07/2010 06:09:42 AM 1076 Views
This. *NM* - 30/07/2010 07:43:24 PM 1161 Views

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