A friend of mine, Paul Smith, wrote this essay earlier today in response to an earlier essay of mine on genre sacred cows and discussion of such. Since he has a few links to related discussions, I suggest you just click on the link and read his arguments.
But it seems to me that Paul Smith makes a bit of a mess of things by mixing two categories of things. The first consists of the flaws in LotR that can be considered flaws in a more or less objective judgement - to wit, the less well-written passages, the not too spectacular plot, the lack of depth in most characters. The second, however, consists of things in LotR that are irritating to Paul Smith and modern readers in general, perhaps also to many readers at the time of writing, but that really can't be called an objective flaw. One may find the sexism and the views on nature vs. industry outdated, silly or even revolting, but that doesn't mean the book is qualitatively worse for containing these things.
And there it becomes a little ironic, since one of the people at Westeros defending Viriconium and Harrison - and then again in fewer words you yourself, Larry - blames his opponents for judging the book for things they want in it that aren't there, and not for the things that are there. For failing to "judging the text based on its own parameters", to quote you. Seems to me that Paul Smith opens himself up - perhaps without intending to - to the charge of being guilty of the same thing. So Tolkien has themes that he doesn't like, and doesn't have things that he *would* have liked (i.e. gender equality). But if Paul Smith is supposed to take the same stance as you and as that Richard guy on Westeros, he really should not mention these things in an essay on why LotR is flawed.
I'll just only note that the "Richard" in that one thread is author Richard Morgan, who does have a dog in this hunt.
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie
Je suis méchant.
Je suis méchant.
Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy
28/07/2010 10:02:39 PM
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Nonsense, at least in part
28/07/2010 10:19:19 PM
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I know there is a polite difference of opinion here
28/07/2010 10:40:42 PM
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Have to agree.
28/07/2010 11:38:37 PM
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It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big.
29/07/2010 09:44:53 AM
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*cough* Twilight *cough*
29/07/2010 10:15:13 AM
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I was gonna mention that one too.
29/07/2010 10:35:17 AM
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Mmm. I read an interesting article actually...
29/07/2010 08:24:04 PM
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That's a fair point, I guess...
29/07/2010 09:18:13 PM
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mmm, except it's relevant to Bella too.
29/07/2010 10:43:03 PM
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That's my point, it's pretty much only relevant to Bella - only there is it shown prominently. *NM*
29/07/2010 10:59:54 PM
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Of course, since she's the main character, it matters rather a lot, yes? *NM*
30/07/2010 09:39:07 AM
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How much do you have to read to form an opinion?
29/07/2010 12:23:28 PM
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To the end
29/07/2010 12:59:25 PM
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my reading time is too scarce to think that way
29/07/2010 01:21:26 PM
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I agree, but HP is a good example of something you should keep reading
29/07/2010 08:27:20 PM
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and I will
29/07/2010 09:13:03 PM
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The books mature as Harry does. You should really give it another shot *NM*
29/07/2010 03:00:37 PM
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He doesn't want to, so why should he? It's not like you or he is losing anything now
29/07/2010 06:15:58 PM
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It is a case of the "someone is wrong on the internet" thing, only much older
29/07/2010 06:27:07 PM
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well you have not failed completely
29/07/2010 06:50:15 PM
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Re: well you have not failed completely
29/07/2010 06:53:38 PM
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one quick question
29/07/2010 07:38:00 PM
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how many books do I have to read to get to the grown up books?
29/07/2010 06:42:37 PM
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None of them are "geared towards grown ups" - it's still a YA series.
29/07/2010 07:03:24 PM
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They're all "light reading" for adults, geared towards YA readers.
29/07/2010 08:29:01 PM
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Re: It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big.
29/07/2010 08:45:58 PM
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it's not supposed to be on par with adult fantasy.
29/07/2010 08:49:16 PM
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I'd argue it's better than Jordan and others from a literary standpoint.
29/07/2010 09:14:07 PM
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I have always thought Jordan had some interesting themes but they were often ignored...
29/07/2010 09:27:12 PM
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I agree Tolkien should not be a sacred cow or put on a pedestal overmuch.
28/07/2010 11:10:37 PM
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I can see your points there
28/07/2010 11:18:59 PM
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I completely agree that there should be no sacred cows, and that applies to Tolkien.
28/07/2010 11:13:39 PM
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all art forms have sacred cows
29/07/2010 01:38:26 AM
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Yeah, it was the line about women waiting at home while their men went to war that made me laugh.
29/07/2010 06:44:34 PM
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Disappointing.
29/07/2010 04:41:34 AM
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I think you are ignoring the key fact that the Silmarillion was never published by Tolkien.
30/07/2010 01:48:14 PM
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I find the Tolkien lovers to be obnoxious in their never ending masturbatory praise of his works.
30/07/2010 06:09:42 AM
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