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Good points Larry Send a noteboard - 22/04/2010 09:19:45 PM
And those ecological structures and how they affect the narrative history seems to be a theme in the Herbert novels.


That's indeed one of the 5-6 main themes of the novel as defined by Herbert himself. By that he meant the main ideas he had decided to explore. Rather than writing essays, Herbert used fiction. Most of his novels are speculative fiction in the purest sensse.

Some others "themes" I remember:

- How the scarcity of a vital resource tend to make it the pivot of economy and politics and defined the limit of the possible. It was a topic of exploration inspired by the oil crisis which was already predicted at the time.

- A deconstructiom of the myth of the Hero, worshipped by humans since the beginning of times, in myth and religions and history. Herbert believed that Heroes, especially the Superhero kind, were disastrous for humanity. In Dune, he meant to project this idea on a galactic scale and put the survival of all humanity itself into the balance.

- How the cult of the superhero too often lead to theocracy, and how mixing up religion and politics constantly lead to fanatism and disaster. Herbert thought theocracy the worst kind of government.

There were a few more, I'd need to look. IIRC, Herbert spoke of that in the foreword to one of the novels in the French edition (his forewords/afterwords, or those of his French publisher aren't in the American editions).

Of course there's minor themes and ideas by the dozen, as in all of Herbert's books.

Among other things, Dune has also fascinated economists in Europe in the 70s.



I had wondered at some of your earlier comments about the first book. May be due to the different appendices/forewords? And the economic aspect is certainly a key one and the Hero element is one I may want to explore in full more in the God-Emperor of Dune essay.
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie

Je suis méchant.
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Frank Herbert, Dune Chronicles (series reviews within) - 16/04/2010 04:11:40 AM 1858 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 16/04/2010 06:09:49 PM 999 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 12:08:06 AM 1169 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 02:33:38 PM 1103 Views
I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological" - 18/04/2010 12:13:14 AM 1095 Views
Re: I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological" - 18/04/2010 03:34:33 AM 1142 Views
Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white? - 18/04/2010 05:18:07 AM 958 Views
Re: Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white? - 19/04/2010 06:15:26 PM 983 Views
That was most of my issue. - 21/04/2010 12:12:56 AM 854 Views
Re: That was most of my issue. - 21/04/2010 06:33:14 PM 833 Views
Re: That was most of my issue. - 29/04/2010 11:38:26 PM 811 Views
Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme - 21/04/2010 02:09:42 PM 951 Views
A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present - 21/04/2010 11:21:38 PM 912 Views
Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present - 22/04/2010 04:58:01 AM 862 Views
Good points - 22/04/2010 09:19:45 PM 895 Views
Re: Good points - 22/04/2010 10:55:21 PM 854 Views
when you call it human ecology I come much closer to agreeing - 22/04/2010 02:16:58 PM 874 Views
Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic. - 19/04/2010 07:52:27 PM 979 Views
Re: Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic. - 20/04/2010 07:04:40 PM 830 Views
You're not using "archaic" correctly - 20/04/2010 10:07:31 PM 851 Views
Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all. - 21/04/2010 01:46:50 AM 760 Views
doesn't that regulate the point down to interesting trivia? - 21/04/2010 02:36:38 PM 876 Views
Re: Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all. - 21/04/2010 06:23:24 PM 953 Views
Funny the things people focus on - 21/04/2010 11:24:59 PM 851 Views
Re: Funny the things people focus on - 23/04/2010 05:28:54 PM 855 Views
People who see this as an ecological book are missing the point of the book - 16/04/2010 06:28:40 PM 1337 Views
Books can have more than one theme. Great books almost always do. *NM* - 16/04/2010 07:15:11 PM 432 Views
I agree with that I just never really the ecological theme to Dune - 16/04/2010 10:12:26 PM 1046 Views
Ecology goes more than one way - 17/04/2010 12:12:45 AM 991 Views
There are several points to the book/series - 17/04/2010 12:11:38 AM 1064 Views
Everyone get something different from a book - 19/04/2010 07:01:51 PM 1249 Views
I remember having hated every single character of this book. Some random thoughts - 17/04/2010 05:08:25 PM 1192 Views
I hope you got to Darwi Odrade - 21/04/2010 03:44:27 PM 870 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 08:05:16 PM 1435 Views
I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 17/04/2010 10:22:27 PM 1235 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 18/04/2010 04:38:10 AM 1161 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 19/04/2010 04:04:43 AM 1116 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 22/04/2010 04:31:26 AM 877 Views
I thought all of Dune had begun as a serial in a SF magazine. *NM* - 22/04/2010 01:58:22 PM 372 Views
And Dune Messiah as well was serialized at first, in Galaxy *NM* - 22/04/2010 09:31:54 PM 382 Views
Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 19/04/2010 08:42:18 AM 1101 Views
Re: Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 21/04/2010 03:33:46 PM 863 Views
I didn't see that in Alia - 21/04/2010 11:27:22 PM 771 Views
One of my favorite series! - 21/04/2010 03:30:57 PM 779 Views
I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it - 21/04/2010 11:29:50 PM 703 Views
Re: I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it - 22/04/2010 04:02:26 PM 816 Views
His style doesn't appeal to me as much, unfortunately - 22/04/2010 09:17:21 PM 702 Views
You might want to track down his short stories one day... - 23/04/2010 02:06:09 PM 927 Views
Children of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 22/04/2010 06:47:04 AM 910 Views
See...I think I made a mistake in my reading of Dune - 22/04/2010 07:26:28 AM 879 Views
Depends - 22/04/2010 08:01:39 AM 790 Views
Re: Depends - 22/04/2010 11:12:15 PM 1042 Views
read something else - 23/04/2010 07:49:34 PM 776 Views
LA Times article on Dune (4/18/2010) - 23/04/2010 10:59:00 AM 733 Views
God Emperor of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 25/04/2010 02:03:37 AM 997 Views
Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 28/04/2010 06:02:54 AM 752 Views
Re: Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 29/04/2010 03:26:28 PM 822 Views
I read the wiki synopses of those two books - 29/04/2010 09:44:07 PM 797 Views
Re: I read the wiki synopses of those two books - 10/05/2010 04:10:49 AM 1129 Views
Chapterhouse: Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 30/04/2010 02:31:10 PM 930 Views
Re: Chapterhouse: Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 10/05/2010 01:24:33 AM 959 Views

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