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One of my favorite series! RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 21/04/2010 03:30:57 PM
I don't have any problem with their mention of homosexuality - Baron Harkonnen is a villain who happens to have homosexual encounters. He is not meant to represent the gay community, so I think you are over-analyzing here.

Also, their culture is based off of certain features of human society on Earth, so that woman being in maternal or domestic roles is supposed to be indicative of a throwback to more "traditional" times. After all, this is a futuristic civilization that destroyed all of it's advanced robotics and artificial intelligence - a lot of the roles we see are actually supposed to be from the Orange Catholic Bible and it's supporting texts. You'll notice in future novels that after the God Emperor takes over, gender roles become more fluid and individual, with a generalized meta-evolution of the species being a realized goal of Leto II and Ghanima.

What I think you may be missing is that the book is written in such a way that it leaves a lot to the readers' imagination while a lot of action is happening on-screen. For example, in that last scene, we dip into the thoughts of everyone involved to see that Jessica's arrival was indicated in a prophecy among the Fremen - where you see clunky dialogue, I see a scene description from multiple POVs delivered in one chapter and rather fluidly describing movement and overall composition of the social scene.

Also, I think you are missing the fact that Frank Herbert wrote these characters with an understanding of Jungian psychology and archetypes - many of these characters seem quasi-mythical because they were meant to resemble myths.

You will notice that reading Jessica's critical paper on how the Bene Gesserit lost control of the Kwisatz Haderach project is a very different point of view from the tone used throughout the novel. This is because the point of view used to convey each story is largely different. I think "Chapterhouse Dune" would be more to your liking in terms of traditional POV descriptions - it is less about telling a story to an audience and more about the experience and inner motivations of a few core characters.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
This message last edited by RugbyPlayingAshaman on 21/04/2010 at 03:40:20 PM
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Frank Herbert, Dune Chronicles (series reviews within) - 16/04/2010 04:11:40 AM 1858 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 16/04/2010 06:09:49 PM 998 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 12:08:06 AM 1169 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 02:33:38 PM 1102 Views
I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological" - 18/04/2010 12:13:14 AM 1095 Views
Re: I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological" - 18/04/2010 03:34:33 AM 1141 Views
Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white? - 18/04/2010 05:18:07 AM 958 Views
Re: Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white? - 19/04/2010 06:15:26 PM 983 Views
That was most of my issue. - 21/04/2010 12:12:56 AM 854 Views
Re: That was most of my issue. - 21/04/2010 06:33:14 PM 833 Views
Re: That was most of my issue. - 29/04/2010 11:38:26 PM 811 Views
Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme - 21/04/2010 02:09:42 PM 951 Views
A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present - 21/04/2010 11:21:38 PM 912 Views
Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present - 22/04/2010 04:58:01 AM 861 Views
Good points - 22/04/2010 09:19:45 PM 894 Views
Re: Good points - 22/04/2010 10:55:21 PM 854 Views
when you call it human ecology I come much closer to agreeing - 22/04/2010 02:16:58 PM 873 Views
Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic. - 19/04/2010 07:52:27 PM 979 Views
Re: Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic. - 20/04/2010 07:04:40 PM 829 Views
You're not using "archaic" correctly - 20/04/2010 10:07:31 PM 850 Views
Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all. - 21/04/2010 01:46:50 AM 759 Views
doesn't that regulate the point down to interesting trivia? - 21/04/2010 02:36:38 PM 876 Views
Re: Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all. - 21/04/2010 06:23:24 PM 952 Views
Funny the things people focus on - 21/04/2010 11:24:59 PM 851 Views
Re: Funny the things people focus on - 23/04/2010 05:28:54 PM 855 Views
People who see this as an ecological book are missing the point of the book - 16/04/2010 06:28:40 PM 1337 Views
Books can have more than one theme. Great books almost always do. *NM* - 16/04/2010 07:15:11 PM 432 Views
I agree with that I just never really the ecological theme to Dune - 16/04/2010 10:12:26 PM 1045 Views
Ecology goes more than one way - 17/04/2010 12:12:45 AM 990 Views
There are several points to the book/series - 17/04/2010 12:11:38 AM 1063 Views
Everyone get something different from a book - 19/04/2010 07:01:51 PM 1249 Views
I remember having hated every single character of this book. Some random thoughts - 17/04/2010 05:08:25 PM 1192 Views
I hope you got to Darwi Odrade - 21/04/2010 03:44:27 PM 870 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 08:05:16 PM 1435 Views
I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 17/04/2010 10:22:27 PM 1235 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 18/04/2010 04:38:10 AM 1161 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 19/04/2010 04:04:43 AM 1115 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 22/04/2010 04:31:26 AM 876 Views
I thought all of Dune had begun as a serial in a SF magazine. *NM* - 22/04/2010 01:58:22 PM 372 Views
And Dune Messiah as well was serialized at first, in Galaxy *NM* - 22/04/2010 09:31:54 PM 382 Views
Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 19/04/2010 08:42:18 AM 1101 Views
Re: Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 21/04/2010 03:33:46 PM 862 Views
I didn't see that in Alia - 21/04/2010 11:27:22 PM 770 Views
One of my favorite series! - 21/04/2010 03:30:57 PM 779 Views
I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it - 21/04/2010 11:29:50 PM 703 Views
Re: I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it - 22/04/2010 04:02:26 PM 816 Views
His style doesn't appeal to me as much, unfortunately - 22/04/2010 09:17:21 PM 702 Views
You might want to track down his short stories one day... - 23/04/2010 02:06:09 PM 927 Views
Children of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 22/04/2010 06:47:04 AM 909 Views
See...I think I made a mistake in my reading of Dune - 22/04/2010 07:26:28 AM 878 Views
Depends - 22/04/2010 08:01:39 AM 790 Views
Re: Depends - 22/04/2010 11:12:15 PM 1041 Views
read something else - 23/04/2010 07:49:34 PM 776 Views
LA Times article on Dune (4/18/2010) - 23/04/2010 10:59:00 AM 733 Views
God Emperor of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 25/04/2010 02:03:37 AM 997 Views
Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 28/04/2010 06:02:54 AM 751 Views
Re: Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 29/04/2010 03:26:28 PM 822 Views
I read the wiki synopses of those two books - 29/04/2010 09:44:07 PM 797 Views
Re: I read the wiki synopses of those two books - 10/05/2010 04:10:49 AM 1128 Views
Chapterhouse: Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 30/04/2010 02:31:10 PM 929 Views
Re: Chapterhouse: Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 10/05/2010 01:24:33 AM 958 Views

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